We used to see K at Saanen - An old man with trembling hands and a bad haircut - regularly berating Osho's disciples who would be sitting up front, dressed in orange.

My dad managed to go on a few walks with K on the mountain paths in the early days and was suprised by the impossibility of dialogue - it was as if K the person had dissapeared, and all that was left was the teaching.

So for most of us K was the teaching.

The first words I took on board were:"the observer is the observed".
20 years later, I finally saw it.
It happened after a life crisis followed by intense doubt and meditation (at a Vipassana retreat) - on my first meditation (choiceless awareness) out of doors, I felt hyper sensitive - like a blade of grass in that field, blowing back and forth in the breeze.
For the next 2 months, every sitting was like entering another dimension - where I was only conciousness - instead of being me the biological/judgemental construct (my body/my beliefs) - I became my senses - I was huge - the bird singing in the garden was me - the truck rumbling past was me - there was no good or bad - no other.

This all stopped suddenly with my first cigarette (strong personal symbolism here) and never returned.
Analysing the event - it all seemed quite logical : for me the bird is happening in my eardrum and my synapses, and experienced via my conceptualisation. I can only observe myself.

Look, see, let go

Dear Douglas,

Thank you for your interesting post.

Douglas:"My dad managed to go on a few walks with K on the mountain paths in the early days and was suprised by the impossibility of dialogue - it was as if K the person had dissapeared, and all that was left was the teaching."

m:This is wonderful. To 'talk about the teaching', if/when it means distance from it as a speaker/observer/talker, is to deny the holistic nature of it. To understand the teaching is to BE it, and perhaps in this beingness to 'talk about it', but there can never be a speaker as an identity because that would imply separation.

In K's case it would seem that he had become the teaching - the shy/dreamy indian boy would only rarely reappear in the presence of very close lifelong friends.
Otherwise personal communication was impossible. Talking to K was apparently like interacting with a database. A bit like the computer that took part in the game show: Jeopardy.

No disrespect intended - the whole thing is fascinating.
Perhaps in some aspects the mystical myths viz the disincarnate himalayan masters had somehow come to pass after all.

Look, see, let go

This post was last updated by Douglas MacRae-Smith Sun, 10 Jul 2011.

Douglas MacRae-Smith wrote:
A bit like the computer that took part in the game show: Jeopardy.

Rightly put Smith, I am familiar with this kind of thing.

I don't know

Douglas MacRae-Smith wrote:
My dad managed to go on a few walks with K on the mountain paths in the early days and was surprised by the impossibility of dialogue

Hello Douglas...

I am not k , as I am D ....I can tell one thing as I love mountain walking , I never talk in such a situation ,I don't want ,I can't ,why talking when walking? there is nothing special in this k not talking when walking in mountain ..it is rather entirely logical for me.

what do you mean by "I was huge " ?

thanks for the sharing..

DAN ! !

This post was last updated by moad dheeb (account deleted) Sun, 10 Jul 2011.

Hello D

By huge I meant that what I experienced as me was no longer confined to the usual boundaries.

Habitually I am my body - me stops at the skin, everything else is not me. My mind is also small and defined by its own boundaries (good/bad - Wrong/right). My identity is a tiny forteress whose existence needs constant reinforcement, lest I not be.

Here I seemed to become this expanding bubble where everything I became aware of was me - there being no 'not me' I suppose 'me' isn't really appropriate, but what else to call it?

It was a magical experience, but when I wasn't meditating I was quite normal and in fact the whole thing ceased to occur after a while - I have since read about monks going through similar moments - it can occur due to surrender after prolonged doubt. Koans are used to provoke this kind of thing. A guru comes in handy at this point to ensure the student does not cling to his insights, the point being not to take on even more baggage.

Look, see, let go

This post was last updated by Douglas MacRae-Smith Sun, 10 Jul 2011.

Hello douglas

thanks, I get your point..well I think

now a question , what have all those special and "different " moments left in your life , I mean as it left frustration , as it made you an "outsider" to the world as it is made by man ,even if living in it, has it left some understanding , and so on, or are you in the very same situation as you were before all that happened ?

you say that : A guru comes in handy at this point to ensure the student does not cling to his insights, the point being not to take on even more baggage.

why not clinging to your insight ?I don't give advice here ,but I wonder what makes you doing that and not let it all happen, do you mean fear is there too ?
after all is there someone like a man who knows more than you know (hypothetical guru like we have one back here ) in such a moment ? May be not indeed.

regards.

DAN ! !

This post was last updated by moad dheeb (account deleted) Mon, 11 Jul 2011.

moad dheeb wrote:
why not clinging to your insight ? and let it all happen, do you mean fear is there too ? after all is someone like a man who knows more than you know (hypothetical guru like we have one back here ) in such a moment ?

Varuna set Vasistha( cosmic teacher) right in the boat. The inspired master made him a seer, a poet, by his great powers, so that his days would be good days, so that his skies and dawns would stretch out.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

This post was last updated by ganesan balachandran Mon, 01 Aug 2011.

Sorry Moad dheeb I dont know exactly how i've changed - nothing spectacular thats for sure.

Intellectually the lesson learned is that we do not choose our point of view - we are slaves to it.

Why be free of baggage? Because the desire is to see clearly, not to add more detail to some fantastical world view.

Look, see, let go

Douglas MacRae-Smith wrote:
Intellectually the lesson learned is that we do not choose our point of view - we are slaves to it.

Douglas , for the sake of chating , let us say there is a beyond personal point of view then We can say there is no enslavement to personal point of view, whatever it is then it will have connection with "something " I guess.
See what I mean ? I go beyond my own self references then I still live within a field , not the personal but another field...
I mean here there may be freedom from my own hindrances , but absolute freedom may not exist....I don't know but you interested me in this with your sharing.

I had some experiences beyond "normality " I had no "feeling " of freedom , I just had the feeling to live rightly.

Douglas MacRae-Smith wrote:
Why be free of baggage? Because the desire is to see clearly, not to add more detail to some fantastical world view.

Yes....I understand.
thanks

DAN ! !

Douglas MacRae-Smith wrote:
the whole thing is fascinating.
Perhaps in some aspects the mystical myths viz the disincarnate himalayan masters had somehow come to pass after all.

Let us now speak the wonder of the births of gods- so that some one may see them when the hymns are chanted in this later age.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

Douglas MacRae-Smith wrote:
My identity is a tiny forteress whose existence needs constant reinforcement, lest I not be.

Nice!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE