A feedback on some regular posts

What happens when you give lectures on tastes of different kinds of delicious foods to hungry people?When you keep telling them that how wonderful the food is?

Most posts are like description of taste of food.

How to have food?Hungry people want to know this, to find out this.

But you don't bother.You keep singing about beauty of heaven.But they are burning in hell.They are looking for a way out from hell.

Do you remember that there was a person K, who mainly, ninety nine percent had spoken about the hell, he was concerned with problem of human being, in public he rarely talked about the other shore.

But here you, ninety nine percent talking about heaven.Clearly you don't seem concerned with most human's problem.

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Sat, 30 Jul 2011.

dhirendra singh wrote:
How to have food? Hungry people want to know this, to find out this.

no time to go into this interesting post now...I send you a private message...

Take care.

Dan.....

K : We all have sorrow. Don't you have sorrow in one form or another? And do you want to know about it? If you do, you can analyse it and explain why you suffer. You can read books on the subject, or go to the church, and you will soon know something about sorrow. But I am not talking about that; I am talking about the ending of sorrow. Knowledge does not end sorrow. The ending of sorrow begins with the facing of psychological facts within oneself and being totally aware of all the implications of those facts from moment to moment. This means never escaping from the fact that one is in sorrow, never rationalizing it, never offering an opinion about it, but living with that fact completely.

from the book of life..

for me it is all there.......take care ...

Dan.....

dhirendra singh wrote:
How to have food?Hungry people want to know this, to find out this.

But you don't bother.You keep singing about beauty of heaven.But they are burning in hell.They are looking for a way out from hell.

Hi Dhirendra,

I could not agree with you more! Perhaps we should have a poetry slot for lighter writing of this nature? Sometimes we fall into the struggle of opposites, I guess, between the frivolous and the serious.

This observation of yours puts me in mind of Bob Marley who said/sang that "time will tell; you think you're in Heaven but you're living in Hell".

and;

"Revelation reveals the truth.
It takes a revolution to make a solution..."

The video link for this song, 'Revolution' is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5YvRlQBPSc

With you, Katy

p.s. I appreciate that Bob Marley isn't everybody's 'cup of tea'!:)

This post was last updated by Katy 9 Sat, 30 Jul 2011.

Muad dheeb wrote:
krishnamurti:>This means never escaping from the fact that one is in sorrow, never rationalizing it, never offering an opinion about it, but living with that fact completely.

from the book of life..

I re-quote a part of what I already quoted above.

dhirendra : they are burning in hell.They are looking for a way out from hell.

Do you remember that there was a person K, who mainly, ninety nine percent had spoken about the hell, he was concerned with problem of human being, in public he rarely talked about the other shore.

yes apart from in the notebook ...
It may as simple as there is no way to avoid to be in hell , all life if running away from it ( this include happy little shiny people as I have seen it is always there out of reach of the superficial awareness ), the superficiality may look good enough , the depth is hell ,this life needs any constant activity of any kind not necessarily worthy or efficient, and so on..

All life in hell even with big smile, or a life going through it which is my concern , dhirendra too and others..

All those good words on anything but suffering is always knocking at my door ,so many words which are at some stage useless...yet useful to start with .

Quite young I found my way to take suffering and sure I was far from being the only one, just by going into it , it is so simple indeed , then I trapped myself in hell which is so simple indeed too , I lost this probably natural capacity which is just there , until hell gets on my all system and nerves not allowing the possibility of an insane normal life...

So dhirendra a way out of hell is to be honest a main subject...
apart from taking all of it I don't see what can be done....

One more point about suffering , if suffering was the clue in itself ,then world war one + two would have given birth to many wise and intelligent people , which is far from being the case.
My feeling here is this one , the point is suffering yes but not in itself because it is only a symptom and a catalyst.
Fine, then what ? there is suffering and my reaction to it. To get rid of it is one of them , the only one ?

My capacity to resist to the worse , the insane , the madness , the violence and so on is what is going to determine my all attitude in life.
If I am weak and can't stand the all of life then I may take suffering or hell into account and let it be part of the all body mind and see !!!
Here lies the idea of suicide , suicide being the ultimate attempt to escape of a mind who suffers but it is the running away from it which is the hell...the ultimate escape..

So suffering may look tiny for some but unbearable to the person living it, when the idea that such a life is mad insane and meaningless enters the all cells of the body/mind....there is a thin line where it seems to find an OK balance in a normal insane world , achieving remains the thing to do in such a life.

Achieving being then the continuity of the movement to run away..what am I running away from ?
Whatever way we think , pain remains even if all seems in a glory life, there is no way to avoid it ,the problem then is to take it...simple....but does not mean that "something " is going to happen or not....it means nothing ,there is no certitude of anything, I really thing that a person in this path is really abnormal to this world...and may even remain just hidden in days of utterly madness , which we are living today is my opinion, not a fact ,just my opinion , this is what I feel , but the mad yogi would probably send me to a specialist to be diagnosed as paranoiac I guess...because of course the world in competition so at war who is judging is perfectly right and in goodness...:D-

Dan.....

This post was last updated by Muad dhib (account deleted) Sun, 31 Jul 2011.

Katy 9 wrote:
I could not agree with you more!

:( :(....

Katy 9 wrote:
Bob Marley who said/sang that "time will tell; you think you're in Heaven but you're living in Hell".

I love Bob Marley, I miss him because of language barrier.

By the way I still wonder where you disagree?You appear in complete agreement.;)

I don't know

Muad dheeb wrote:
K said:But I am not talking about that; I am talking about the ending of sorrow. Knowledge does not end sorrow. The ending of sorrow begins with the facing of psychological facts within oneself and being totally aware of all the implications of those facts from moment to moment. This means never escaping from the fact that one is in sorrow,

Thank you for a nice quote.He had talked a lot about this.This is the point I want to highlight, This is the only issue here, ending of sorrow, why to put a lot of other material which divert from the real issue.

I don't know

Muad dheeb wrote:
for me it is all there....

For me too Dan.Be well.

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
You appear in complete agreement.;)

Yes, this is exactly what I meant by saying: 'I could not agree with you more', Dhirendra. 'I am in complete agreement' is more clear.

Sorry that this English phrase can seem to be the opposite in literal translation!:)

Regards, Katy

This post was last updated by Katy 9 Sun, 31 Jul 2011.

dhirendra singh wrote:
Clearly you don't seem concerned with most human's problem.

The plough that works the soil makes a man well-fed;
the legs that walk put the road behind them. The priest who speaks is better than one who does not speak. The friend who gives freely surpasses the one who does not.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

dhirendra singh wrote:
Thank you for a nice quote. He had talked a lot about this.This is the point I want to highlight, This is the only issue here, ending of sorrow, why to put a lot of other material which divert from the real issue .

Hello dhirendra , after all even schizo and all of it K said a few good words :)) LOL !

Anyway I quoted you too as what you point out is my concern .

Even if all that is just vague , the very little I experienced about it (ending sorrow ) tells me that from now on it is my main concern because it can bring relief, clarity and more like all of a sudden life makes sense, and I say it again , it was my concern too when young (like many), before I unfortunately lost touch with all that( like many) , leading a normal life , normal like war = nobel price for peace , fukushima does not vomit death because they don't mention it , or starvation in somalia, or anyone killed by democratic lovely and coloured weapons bringing so called democracy( which has started in Greece by the murder of Socrates not to forget ) with violence and guns

Here let's say we suppose we arrived here to get some point about sorrow by reading k or/and in a personal journey , then this part , this twilight zone between the normality we live and abnormality remains not really communicable by words ( I talk about being on one bank of the river and suddenly being on the other part of the bank , this is a k image) by I think we have to keep going talking , sometimes all wrong or right it may bring unexpected clarity and this too cannot be predicted .

And from what I had lived, to have been capable to "be " the pain more than a few times where it has clearly produced "something" helps , but the inertia of a brain only used to work analytically is huge , as huge as a rock dropping from the mountain into a hole with no end .

Mentioning "taking " the pain , "be" the pain , facing it , already the words becomes rather too vague . They already are too remote from what they can convey . Still it is all we have right now.

To" be the pain" seems to indicate to let go not only the subtle cravings through the intimate contact with them, but not to crave for the care about food ,shelter , vital needs , so in one word it seems to tell me : drop the analysing and all what lies behind ...which is the object of the many talks we all have here , talks in order to get a wide picture of our tool , the tool which up to a point may deeply and totally see that it is a ......tool ,then see that it hurts and so on.
but again this tool is fine in childhood, well only IF surrounded by the right wise adults , if not childhood can already be a disaster due to the same bunch of already perverted people we see later on leading the adult flock.
Insanity may start from childhood of course.

In the occidental world today the kids are , most of them , just concern even more than their parents with the superficiality of what is already very superficial.I mean here that they have nothing to say , apart from repeating the propaganda carefully built for them , propaganda which is empty on purpose, but full of words !

They absolutely are not at all a promise for a change to come , on the contrary, they are the promise of the continuity of the same world which is the core of the movie "groundhog day" if you know it , the same day repeating itself again and again and again and again and again, nothing new for centuries indeed , only the wallpaper is different, but personally I don't like wallpaper.

Myself here I am caught in explanations when what makes me angry towards me this morning is my own state of the mind which is again bothering me: I am discontent , entirely discontent..and whatever lies behind makes me suffer like a flame would burn the hand .The body program in that matter seems to have more intelligence than the mind program , as if it burns I remove the hand , when if I suffer in the "mind" I stick to it..this is nonsense on our part isn't ?

This is suffering , then most energy is first spent in resisting which is usually for the all life ,then in explaining too and so on, until one more time I reach the moment where I "SEE " that nothing works and "I" cannot defeat discontentment, but on the contrary it is the one totally smashed by it.

In the past it would have taken 30 years to get that point once , but as there is a learning in these matters it takes a short time to come to the point I mention : "I cannot defeat discontentment ".

This moment when I may let discontentment acts in its ways or produce its catalyst effect is not easy to live in the sense hard to get , but not hard in the sense of effort but hard to clearly understand !
When "analyses" wants steadiness and permanence it seems that the movement of life is everything but that , ( this had been seen by many people before of course and in itself there is no global discovery , but personal understanding of "what is" only)....when any technique requires steadiness and some kind of permanence of course , like a permanent and accessible knowledge..

And as I mentioned above this "being the suffering" often tells me not to care that much about vital needs because this craving for security hurts too (security = hurts this is how suffering as a catalyst works according to me so far ))
It tells about the no permanency as well , so about death which is always there indeed as a possibility , it tells when there is any "wrong" projection by producing hurts and in fact it is telling anything as it is willing to tell when it is free to act on !!

This analytical process(ME) wants to know and secure the all life spend in heaven-land !!!! forever young, pretty ,wealthy , immortal , and so on...Remove the hurt who would complain ? no one !

Analysing brain only acts according to its set up and prerogatives in a fixed pattern like any animal including the smallest so called living creature,this is a kind of "mechanical" world ,mechanical because of the repetition of the same patterns all limited, where the motives are all based on "ME" and its program.
Limitation is fine as such unless it is perceived differently , so what is the problem ?

Our society is then the encounter of billions of "ME" , all fighting , simply because a "me" only looks at itself , its memory , its limited knowledge.

Having said all those good words or my own bla bla bla, is again in analysing which finds up to this point its utility when it is getting aware of the consequences of its functioning by using suffering as a catalyst , then what brings suffering may be seen by using suffering as a catalyst ( I mean by being the suffering )...this part is magic, in other words out of my control !

Then we may find ourselves in a life where any discontentment will be taken into account right away or close enough to that, so far I don't see anything else to by-pass the insanity of the analytical brain, which is probably not insane as such and not aware of the fact it is producing insanity unless mass murders , violence, tortures ans all of that is seen as a logical part of life, if it was the case I say then that the universe is just nuts .....

Analysing being only a program which has given birth to other programs like engines, computer and so on. After all when any animal is eating another one to survive a program forces it to do so , then we have to say that the "creator" is the one imposing all that..

Well sometimes I really wonder if the universe , whatever it is ,is not insane !!!! The bliss I had luckily lived tells me that the universe is not nuts , and beyond words .

Dan.....

Muad dheeb wrote:
Well sometimes I really wonder if the universe , whatever it is ,is not insane !!!! The bliss I had luckily lived tells me that the universe is not nuts , and beyond words .

Hi Dan

My guess is, universe is clever, it is exactly doing what it has planned.Why is it doing something?Again a guess, it is part of being, creation is part of existence.

Is it sane or insane?

Children suffer, animal suffer, good and bad suffer, not only psychological, but physical, economical suffering, children have painful diseases. die in early age, is it sane or insane?

Creation is a process, in which different things are required at different stage, Who know if ego/division was part of creation at some stage, and soon it may has no role, so, we may be able to be free from division.

So sane and insane, ugly and beautiful, bad and good are probably part of creation.Probably, in absolute sense, nothing is sane and insane.

Well, you know better, just was enjoying the ideas.

Take care.:)

I don't know

Katy 9 wrote:
Sorry that this English phrase can seem to be the opposite in literal translation!:)

Sorry for my poor English which is becoming worse day by day.:(

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Mon, 01 Aug 2011.

dhirendra singh wrote:
Probably , in absolute sense , nothing is sane and insane.

well so we are missing the absolute is a solution here , and I am not joking! Your post gave me this answer !!...

but there are different suffering, the one which psychologically and permanently hurts the most mankind is the suffering created by the running away from what is.so from this absolute you mention....then such a man makes others suffers too by reaction , but the origin is still the same...

I red you're loosing your english on some other post, is is true ? :))

all the best..

Dan.....

This post was last updated by Muad dhib (account deleted) Mon, 01 Aug 2011.

Muad dheeb wrote:
I red you're loosing your english on some other post, is is true ? :))

What do you think?:)

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
Sorry for my poor English which is becoming worse day by day.:(

Sorry for my total inability to write in your first language, Dhirendra...semantics will not do anything to end one another's suffering will they?

More Bob Marley:

"Until basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race there's going to be war"

"If I had the wings of a dove I would fly away and build a nest...Since I have no wings I'm going to sing"

Peace, Katy :)

This post was last updated by Katy 9 Tue, 02 Aug 2011.

dhirendra singh wrote:

Muad dheeb wrote:
I red you're loosing your english on some other post, is is true ? :))
dhirendra : what do you think?:)

well what you say is simple then very clear so it speaks with few words, don't change anything....is my free feeling for today..:)

Dan.....

This post was last updated by Muad dhib (account deleted) Mon, 01 Aug 2011.

Thank you, Dan and Katy.:)

I don't know