Jiddu Krishnamurti

I think there are really two fundamental problems, violence and sorrow. Unless we solve these, and go beyond them, all our efforts, our constant battles, have very little meaning. We seem to spend most of our lives within the field of ideologies, formulas, concepts, and by means of these we try to solve these two essential problems, violence and sorrow.

he adds:

Sorrow, the self-pity which is part of that sorrow, the loneliness, the utter meaninglessness of life, the boredom, the routine, deprive life of all sense of purpose, so we invent purpose; the intellectuals put together ideological purpose according to which we try to live. And not being able to solve these problems we go back to something that has been, either in our youth, or to the culture of tradition, depending upon race, country, and so on.

The more the problem becomes urgent, the more we escape to some form of ideological explanation from the past or to some ideological concept of the future, and we remain caught in this trap. And one observes, both in the East and in the West, the escapes into every form of entertainment, whether it is the entertainment of the Church, or the entertainment of football, or the cinema - and all the rest. The demand for entertainment, for distraction takes extraordinary forms, going to museums, talking endlessly about music, about the latest books, or writing about something which is dead and gone and buried, which has no value at all.

the link to more of the talk.

Again krishnamurti goes right up to the point.
Two major problems , violence like the one we impose on others ,we all do that when it is possible , sorrow always there , which may be there before violence or even somehow at the origin or not far at the origin of violence...

I find it is THE subject , and to add violence with sorrow as two main problems is really "intelligently " seen.

After all let us say I am really mad insane, but only with myself and when it is time to cooperate intelligently I just do it : this is fine of course...it means that I am not using others as scapegoat of my self inflicted misery , misery I know nothing about...

I know harmless mad people , it is fine ,but I know too some clever cunning leaders using the all world for their pity-full sake....those are curses , even if their talent would be unique which I doubt they would be a curse..who cares about a unique talent not willing to friendly share ?

Then sorrow....sorrow is in what is field ,when we are in what should be field , there will be no meeting in some unity if such a situation is , and one more life will be over like 100 billions before us....spend in a marathon where we think we are reaching the line when the real origin is running away...see how we move from escaping to reaching ? without knowing it at all !!

Dan.....

This post was last updated by Muad dhib (account deleted) Wed, 10 Aug 2011.

The violence could just be due to the conformity of people to some idea.Can we really see that if our living is made to conform to strict bussiness conditions leads to the violence? It need not be always lead to distruction, it could be degeneration of humans.

A quick observation of life in equitorial region on the earth is observed(mostly in Asain states), it is the place where maximum people live,just because the environment allows living being to survive at any given point of time.Relatively the density of population is more.That is basic structure of that place.A foolish commersail activity should not alter it.

In such a situation if a commersail entraprise is taken up at macro level,to generate more wealth, within a short span of time,at the cast of easey living that was previously existing for living beings;making the people to perish.

If people are made to conform to such a entraprise, they made to realise that they ether degenerate, due to the lose of easey existance they had ,prair to the commersail venture,because environment provided for them,or the place they were originally holding is no more suitable for their existance due to mind less utilisation of the natural resources which were previously condusive to easy existance..A clear demographic change.A place which was allowing large populations to exisit,has resulted in no place to live, all in the guise of development of the downtrodone.Is that not a violence?Cast of holding an idea.

I am that Iam.

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Can we really see that if our living is made to conform to strict business conditions leads to the violence?

Hello , thanks for the all post...

from your quote, too few yet deeply see the violence of business , by ignorance yes but mainly because they want to be part of it , in case they would win....business is not accidental at all, it represents the most common state of man's mind...

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
A place which was allowing large populations to exist,has resulted in no place to live, all in the guise of development of the downtrodden.Is that not a violence ?

yes it is....

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
it could be degeneration of humans.

it is possible yes....I have no opinion in one sense or another with that , but I reckon that it is a possibility.

Nowadays I find that people in Europe ( which is the only part of the world I have been living in ) are recently mentally shrinking all over the place and basically have absolutely nothing to talk about , to share , more than never...

This can be the counter effect of thinking that we attained the pantheon of success , and now what is left apart from gadgets we are addicted to...nothing much but drugs ...they see and feel more than never the void of such a life , the void is refused hurts , is violence to life and is going to bring many people towards a global Alzheimer ...last stupid idea with suicide of a part of the brain not fit for the all of life...

“It's best to have failure happen early in life. It wakes up the Phoenix bird in you so you rise from the ashes.”

Dan.....

Muad dheeb wrote:
“It's best to have failure happen early in life. It wakes up the Phoenix bird in you so you rise from the ashes.”

That is nice way to console crying mortals.They do live on hope.We are too learned to take it as such, with JK's teaching at our back,lest the hope turn out to be an illusion.Ofcourse we are to act with out expectation.Some much for his teachings.

I am that Iam.

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:

Muad dheeb wrote:
“It's best to have failure happen early in life. It wakes up the Phoenix bird in you so you rise from the ashes.”

That is nice way to console crying mortals.They do live on hope.We are too learned to take it as such, with JK's teaching at our back,lest the hope turn out to be an illusion.Of course we are to act with out expectation.Some much for his teachings.

Hello , it was a quote from "someone" , quite famous .It sounded an interesting image for me.
console crying mortals you say...living on hope... :(....sad!!!

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Of course we are to act with out expectation.

how do you come to this point if I may friendly ask ?

Dan.....

Muad dhib wrote:
how do you come to this point

Nothing happen to me with expectations as expected,and the quality of attention gets distorted. i hit a target with a stone, once, twice, thrice and gave up and threw the stone it hit the target.funny.
gb
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Of course we are to act with out expectation.

Muad dhib: how do you come to this point if I may friendly ask ?

ganesan balachandran wrote:
Nothing happen to me with expectations as expected,and the quality of attention gets distorted. i hit a target with a stone, once, twice, thrice and gave up and threw the stone it hit the target.funny.
gb

thanks gb, so it is a matter of experience ...some knowledge is needed too, as well as "something more "?

Dan.....

Muad dhib wrote:
some knowledge is needed too

but that need not be stored as idea or as memory, then also expected results will not be the out come.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

ganesan balachandran wrote:

Muad dhib wrote:
some knowledge is needed too

but that need not be stored as idea or as memory, then also expected results will not be the out come.
gb

hello gb , in your example with the stones you have learnt about : nothing happens to me with expectation as expected , it is some sort of knowledge.

Now some other time, you clearly see that you are expecting and it may bother you and are kind of seeing that, the previous learning about expectation is back to you , you have seen that situation , you may use it to go straight to the point about expectation...well it is more swift ,subtle than my words but it is the idea..

when I live sorrow I don't start from scratch again and again , I have learnt, each time more..Is it stored somewhere ? yes it has to be...

Are we talking about the same quality of memory here than the normal one we use all the time and which is right all the time ? no.....why ? because normal memory does not work in these much more subtle fields .
Normal memory is a final decision on which I base all what I am up to to seek shelter not to understand ,the other type of memory is not a final decision but is going to be brought into the light of a situation where it will make you go to the point right away, it will not be used as a substitution to "what is".
Then when you are reaching the point memory has helped you to see, then the "work" on it remains , memory is gone out of the picture, because it is a new situation where normal memory can't do nothing about it, because it has to be lived ..

Dan.....

Yes, intelligence can use memory and not otherwise.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK