visit

http://anitamoorjani.com/

And

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjLouLHH-_I&...

.....NDERF: You’ve mentioned this feeling of oneness before. The connection to everything and the all that is, which you felt while in the NDE state. Can you elaborate a little more on this feeling?

In that NDE state, I felt like I was connected to everything. I was everything, and everything was me. It’s something that is so hard to explain, because the right words just don’t exist. It felt like there is no separation, until we come into physical life and look at the world through the mind. In fact, it felt like the separation IS the mind.

There was SO much clarity in that state, but somehow, it did not feel like the clarity came from the mind. It’s as if something else was doing the understanding, and that something else was able to identify the mind as being separate, and the mind as being the cause for disconnection from the all that is. It felt like the ego and the mind were one. So in that state, which is beyond the mind, there was no ego and no attachment. And all was one. The connection was felt with EVERYTHING. There was no discrimination and no judgment against ANYONE or ANYTHING. Any crime committed, or any sickness of the body all stemmed from the same thing. All stemmed from a separation and disease of the mind, and is also caused by how the mind interprets the separation.

If we are able to stand outside the mind, there is no problem. We are perfect. Even imperfection is the creation of the mind. Judgment too. EVERYTHING. But as soon as we get “into” our minds, we feel a need to process, and see separation in order to understand. But ALL stem from the mind. In truth, we are not our minds.

Yet, when in that state, even though I felt one with everything, I still seemed to recognize myself as a separate being from the oneness, as if I had my own evolution. It was like I had this mind, which is not me, but I sort of … had an obligation to “evolve” it as best as I could, but I was OUTSIDE of my mind looking at it. When we are in the physical, we are INSIDE our mind looking out. And the separation between all becomes more glaring and obvious.

It felt like all the problems and the issues of the world stemmed from too much mind identification. That is the illusion. The mind is the illusion......

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Thu, 22 Dec 2011.

Good D, thank you for sharing. next time if i meet her i will be tempted to ask if she heard of K.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

ganesan balachandran wrote:
if she heard of K.

Don't know her detail, but I found her experience interesting, if it's real.

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
, if it's real

What do you think? I don't know what to make of this

T

dhirendra singh wrote:
if it's real.

it must be. k exposed the possibility with psychological death.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

This post was last updated by ganesan balachandran Fri, 23 Dec 2011.

ganesan balachandran wrote:
dhirendra singh wrote:
if it's real.

it must be. k exposed the possibility with psychological death.

What puzzles me is that she says her message to peole is 'finding our purpose'. I would say purpose is a very human, physical, limited concept, isn't it? I question if purpose is at all part of that dimension she seems to have been part of for a while.
What is must be purposeless, otherwise we are back in the same old effort/desire/goal/challenge spyral. Isn' it? Either that, or everything K ever talked about is wrong and I don't think it was.I go as far as (irrationally) saying I know it wasn't.

Interesting though. I would love to read her medical records.

T

dhirendra singh wrote:
The connection was felt with EVERYTHING. There was no discrimination and no judgement against ANYONE or ANYTHING.

Hello dhirendra,...now close enough to the wild mountain, I am going to walk into the wild nature as often as possible....may be the main physical natural interest left for me...
as nothing else matters when the disturbance tells me that anything else but eating and having clothes and shelter is practically enough, the "food" for the mind is NOT of our decision....of our making ,and this NDE experience exactly fits what I myself lived when awake (the kundalini and the full day in bliss, I already met such a person who lived when in the coma the exact same experience as the one told by Anita and what I lived )..and especially what I quoted from your topic like this: there was no discrimination and no judgement, this is just truth ...

It is worthy for me to tell all those experiences so thank you very much for that..
It may speak somehow to some parts of the brain not caught in becoming so in suffering...

The guy I met was "contacted" by some "voices" like me in an unknown language but would understand it...in his case the message was simply: your body is not going to end now...

The superficiality of the normal mind always at war with what is beyond time is simply appalling...and at its very best totally boring for me, for the worse we see it everyday on this red earth any time when we are not asleep.

Then again it is a matter of going through a door where suffering tells :this is not the way....and so far for me the disturbance created by this suffering tells the very same thing: the leadership and dictatorship of my desires leads to hell..

I am afraid that I do not see how we can avoid to go through all the disturbance of suffering and let it entirely smash the leadership of analysing(self), which seems to be a point that even kids seems to be capable to get up to a point, before they get smashed as well by the violent dumbness of the adult world, and to be honest when I hear some so called "intelligent" intellectual or not elites of this world they seem to have much less clue that simple people because their escapism is much stronger .
For me suffering is precisely the only tool we have to go beyond insanity and the task seems impossible for the self, suffering is not a mere coincidence but an intelligent repellent "tool" for the birth of the all mind. For me it says do not seek, which is in everything but the self..

Intelligence and suffering don't live together..one overcomes the other through understanding of the causes, understanding expressed in its own way, at the end of the day we don't have that much to do.

thanks for the sharing ..

Dan...

Dan.

This post was last updated by Daniel Dan Fri, 23 Dec 2011.

B Teulada wrote:
finding our purpose'

her vocabulary is different. Didn't k say that man's only vocation is to find out truth.
Somehow the message i get from her is it is all conditioning, we die because of our conditioning.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

ganesan balachandran wrote:
her vocabulary is different. Didn't k say that man's only vocation is to find out truth.

but he also said the minut you are actively 'seeking' you find anything BUT truth. I don't know, there may be a nuance here I am not getting.

ganesan balachandran wrote:
we die because of our conditioning.

i am sure we do. they say cancer is linked to stress too.

anyway, the very curious part in this for me is that 2 February 2006 (the day it all happened for her) is the day my father died quite unexpectedly of heart attack. not that it means anything ... but still.

only numbers that do not come to me are the lottery numbers ... :-)

oh well, whatever

T

B Teulada wrote:
he also said the minut you are actively 'seeking' you find anything BUT truth

you (somehow)find truth, not by seeking or prepare your self so that it occupy.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

B Teulada wrote:
is the day my father died quite unexpectedly of heart attack.

there may be an influence of external or others strong conditioning.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

Dan Mohad Dib wrote:
of our making ,and this NDE experience exactly fits what I myself lived when awake

Hi Dan the man:)

I too thought that you will exactly understand that event.She done, what K pointed, die to everything.She tried to express in different words, but sense is same, K too struggled for right Kind of words.

Dan Mohad Dib wrote:
For me suffering is precisely the only tool we have to go beyond insanity and the task seems impossible for the self, suffering is not a mere coincidence but an intelligent repellent "tool" for the birth of the all mind. For me it says do not seek, which is in everything but the self..

This is also very interesting.I psychologically suffered a lot, probably intelligence is not there in this case.

Dan Mohad Dib wrote:
.now close enough to the wild mountain, I am going to walk into the wild nature as often as possible....may be the main physical natural interest left for me...

Good luck to you, lucky man:)

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Fri, 23 Dec 2011.

B Teulada wrote:
What do you think? I don't know what to make of this

To me it seem real, not that her cancer was cured, this is not important, but her experience of love, and her experience of beyond the thought being.

I don't know

B Teulada wrote:
'finding our purpose'

Porpose of all things is to find harmony with one's purpose.

Purpose of life is life.

Are we in harmony with life?

ganesan balachandran wrote:
Didn't k say that man's only vocation is to find out truth.

Yes, to find God. But not 'out there.'

He also said it was the purpose of society. He said society has lost its purpose.

But life, love, god, truth, happiness, is all same thing using different words.

Love is life celebrating itself. It is all around. Are you looking?

Peng Shu Tse wrote:
ganesan balachandran wrote:

Didn't k say that man's only vocation is to find out truth.
And Peng replies:
Yes, to find God. But not 'out there.'

He also said it was the purpose of society. He said society has lost its purpose.

Oh - that really is a big dose of misquotation - and from total misunderstanding.

Get it right please - for your own sake at least.

What you claim doesn't change the truth of what K pointed towards - no opinion can ever change truth. But you lead yourself up the garden path with such pronunciations. Give yourself a break!

dhirendra singh wrote:

Dan Mohad Dib wrote:
For me suffering is precisely the only tool we have to go beyond insanity and the task seems impossible for the self, suffering is not a mere coincidence but an intelligent repellent "tool" for the birth of the all mind. For me it says do not seek, which is in everything but the self..

dhirendra: This is also very interesting.I psychologically suffered a lot, probably intelligence is not there in this case.

hello my friend...well , I am back to heavy disturbance those days, some of it is due to the deep awareness of the global man's mind as I perceive the global insanity since a child, and today it is more lost and sick than never as many people dreamed that science would be the new god to solve problems when it is obviously just another failure and obviously only the proper state of the whole mind will cure us from madness.
Today's state of mind which is a deep heavy suffering and all the various ways to run away from it which of course never work....

and some of it is due to the no awakening of this "intelligence" you mention here. this intelligence would be anything but the personal mind (self).

For me there is a "weird doing" in this matter which is not automatic and needs some deep journey into "what is" ,at some stage it has to become permanent I guess and what can be foreseen in tiny flashes of intelligence is simply the total easy refusal of man's world as it is , which seems to be an involuntary side effect of the perception that all "I want" are potentially painful so wrong...

Remember my feeling that Mother Nature talk to us through this "medium" too .

As john raica put , there never will be any "certitude" about any result, this is why out of many reasons the "task" is hard, as the self when involved always wants to know about a result...

Then it is time to leave somehow the intellectual journey , and there we all are clearly alone.....A week end in the wild is in front of me....thanks for your words..

all the best..

Dan.

Dan.

Just I asked a couple of question to Anita, and was surprised to get her quick reply( I think she is very busy).Here are the exchange:

I wrote her:

Hello dearest

J Krishnamurti had talked in detail about human suffering and to end it.Have you read him so far?

And one more Q., do you feel special?

Her Reply:

Dear Dhirendra,

Thank you for your query.

I have heard of J Krishnamurti, but have never got round to reading any of
his material. I have heard he is very profound, though.

On your second question - I don't feel I am any more special than anyone
else. I believe we are all special, no one person more or less special than
another, because we are all facets of the same consciousness.

Thank you and much love and blessings to you and your family.
Anita

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Sat, 24 Dec 2011.

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Oh - that really is a big dose of misquotation - and from total misunderstanding.

Thank you Lady P. Is it because you only read part of what he said?

Obviously I did not misquote.

OK - Direct quote and reference please.

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
OK - Direct quote and reference please.

U C, this is why you are such a Lady. But unfortunately it is servants day off.

I tell you I read itand I do not lie.

K said that purpose of society is to find God but society has lost its way. He said it in 1950's.

General point is that society which has no sense of the sacred is already dead.

Question it leaves me is in what was did K mean 'purpose?' Because, in ordinary sense and in sense he often put it, purpose means goal and therefore will.

Often when asked about purpose of life K said it is wrong question to ask about purpose of life, one should ask instead about meaning of life.

And he said that meaning cannot be imposed on life as life IS its own meaning.

So,I think when he talked 'positively' about purpose, he used the word figuratively and behind it he had the sense 'meaning.'

But to say society has a meaning outside of what it is or that it has lost a meaning (purpose) that it once had, is curious for me.

I think the suggestion wouldbe compatable with the idea that society was set up by very religious people, as in time of Vedas (Ganesan will know) with purpose to educate new generations, like in K schools.But this purpose was lost and meaning of society was reduced and negated.

He suggested that many times, including in last talks.

It is like what I said in another thread that India lost her virginity long time ago and now only loses her shame. Western societies never had neither, especially american but also australian. You cannot create good new wine from dregs of old.

And nothing left in India now - sorry Ganesan.

And Mao was Chinese bin Laden, destroyed anything left.

Modern society is only built on dregs of past world.

Peng Shu Tse wrote:
K said that purpose of society is to find God but society has lost its way. He said it in 1950's.

Not good enough to interpret in such a manner. Direct quote and time and place please.

Also - not interested in your other pop-encounter-group-type interpretations. Boring - all the same-old-same-old - been done before - changes nothing.

You fool only yourself Paul/Peng.

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Direct quote and time and place please.

ganesan balachandran wrote:

Didn't k say that man's only vocation is to find out truth.

This i strongly remember, because it is about right livelihood or something , which still i could not find like truth.hence i feel either vocation or truth cannot be owned.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

Dhirendra said She done, what K pointed, die to everything.She tried to express in different words, but sense is same, K too struggled for right Kind of words.

She had an extraordinary experience and recovered spontaneously from her disease. In which way may that help others to have an experience of oneness and to recover from cancer?
Maybe new hope can cure, I am not shure about that.
There is some research on the topic of healing, I dont know them in detail. But the research on placebo effects shows that it is a faculty located somewhere in the brain that induces healing apart from medical treatments and its not yet fully uncovered.
Some other things that happened to her indicate her attachments to the world, her relations, the role shes playing, the thought that she has got a task to fulfill, a mission. And that is, together with the feeling of oneness, a making of the human mind.
The feelings of love and oneness are a making of the mind, though they feel real, like all feelings. One can take drugs too to feel free of earthly burden. And those "states" can never be conserved or shared without becoming other burdens, new aims of desire.
I guess thats why Krishnamurti tried to inquire the questions of our living very soberly, trying to avoid the establishing of goals though he may not have succeeded there.

Ute S wrote:
The feelings of love and oneness are a making of the mind, though they feel real, like all feelings. One can take drugs too to feel free of earthly burden. And those "states" can never be conserved or shared without becoming other burdens, new aims of desire.

All feelings are of the mind, yes. So, the 'feeling of love' is of the mind. Feeling is sentiment - of the senses - which is part ofmind.

But is love of the mind, is it a feeling?

You may or may not feel it, but is it, in itself, a feeling? Or is something outside of the mind involved?

I listen to K saying that love is outside of thought, outside of the mind. The purpose is to find it.

Like Ganesan, I clearly remember such phrases by K, neither misquote nor misinterpretation.

But if you go to search engine on K-online and put in "purpose of life" it only brings up quotes with most number of 'of' in. Search Engine does not work with phrases, only single words. And there are thousands of references to love, purpose, society etc etc. Impossible to find quote but nevertheless he said it. Good enough that two here have read it and clearly remember.

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Direct quote and time and place please.

Aristocratic request. Servant still having day off. So sorry.

This is one quote that substantiates Ganesan's recollection

From - On Freedom

June 18 1948 - Third Talk in Bangalore

To find out the purpose of life, the mind must be free of measurement; then only can it find out - otherwise, you are merely projecting your own want. This is not mere intellection, and if you go into it deeply, you will see its significance. After all, it is according to my prejudice, to my want, to my desire, to my predilection, that I decide what the purpose of life is to be. So, my desire creates the purpose. Surely, that is not the purpose of life. Which is more important - to find out the purpose of life, or to free the mind itself from its own conditioning and then inquire? And perhaps when the mind is free from its own conditioning, that very freedom itself is the purpose. Because, after all, it is only in freedom that one can discover any truth.

This post was last updated by Peng Shu Tse (account deleted) Tue, 27 Dec 2011.

From First and Last Freedom

Here K relates the word 'purpose'to the word 'significance' (meaning) and says the purpose of relationship is self-knowledge. He says that in 'love' there is no relationship.

"We talk about love, we talk about responsibility, duty, but there is really no love; relationship is based on gratification, the effect of which we see in the present civilization. The way we treat our wives, children, neighbours, friends is an indication that in our relationship there is really no love at all. It is merely a mutual search for gratification. As this is so, what then is the purpose of relationship? What is its ultimate significance? If you observe yourself in relationship with others, do you not find that relationship is a process of self-revelation? Does not my contact with you reveal my own state of being if I am aware, if I am alert enough to be conscious of my own reaction in relationship? Relationship is really a process of self-revelation, which is a process of self-knowledge; in that revelation there are many unpleasant things, disquieting, uncomfortable thoughts, activities. Since I do not like what I discover, I run away from a relationship which is not pleasant to a relationship which is pleasant. Therefore, relationship has very little significance when we are merely seeking mutual gratification but becomes extraordinarily significant when it is a means of self-revelation and self-knowledge.

"After all, there is no relationship in love, is there? It is only when you love something and expect a return of your love that there is a relationship. When you love, that is when you give yourself over to something entirely, wholly, then there is no relationship."

Also from First and Last Freedom

"Does life have a meaning, a purpose? Is not living in itself its own purpose, its own meaning? Why do we want more? Because we are so dissatisfied with our life, our life is so empty, so tawdry, so monotonous, doing the same thing over and over again, we want something more, something beyond that which we are doing. Since our everyday life is so empty, so dull, so meaningless, so boring, so intolerably stupid, we say life must have a fuller meaning and that is why you ask this question. Surely a man who is living richly, a man who sees things as they are and is content with what he has, is not confused; he is clear, therefore he does not ask what is the purpose of life. For him the very living is the beginning and the end. Our difficulty is that, since our life is empty, we want to find a purpose to life and strive for it. Such a purpose of life can only be mere intellection, without any reality; when the purpose of life is pursued by a stupid, dull mind, by an empty heart, that purpose will also be empty. Therefore our purpose is how to make our life rich, not with money and all the rest of it but inwardly rich - which is not something cryptic. When you say that the purpose of life is to be happy, the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life and your God is merely a thing that is known. You can only make your way towards an object which you know; if you build a staircase to the thing that you call God, surely that is not God. Reality can be understood only in living, not in escape. When you seek a purpose of life, you are really escaping and not understanding what life is. Life is relationship, life is action in relationship; when I do not understand relationship, or when relationship is confused, then I seek a fuller meaning. Why are our lives so empty? Why are we so lonely, frustrated? Because we have never looked into ourselves and understood ourselves. We never admit to ourselves that this life is all we know and that it should therefore be understood fully and completely. We prefer to run away from ourselves and that is why we seek the purpose of life away from relationship. If we begin to understand action, which is our relationship with people, with property, with beliefs and ideas, then we will find that relationship itself brings its own reward. You do not have to seek. It is like seeking love. Can you find love by seeking it? Love cannot be cultivated. You will find love only in relationship, not outside relationship, and it is because we have no love that we want a purpose of life. When there is love, which is its own eternity, then there is no search for God, because love is God.

"It is because our minds are full of technicalities and superstitious mutterings that our lives are so empty and that is why we seek a purpose beyond ourselves. To find life's purpose we must go through the door of ourselves; consciously or unconsciously we avoid facing things as they are in themselves and so we want God to open for us a door which is beyond. This question about the purpose of life is put only by those who do not love. Love can be found only in action, which is relationship."

From 'Life Ahead' - 16th Talk at Rajghat- Dec 28 1952

"Similarly, if you can clarify the confusion within yourself, then you will find what the purpose of life is; you will not have to ask, you will not have to look for it; all that you have to do is to be free from those causes which bring about confusion. The causes of confusion are very clear; they are in the 'me', in the 'I', that is constantly wanting to expand itself through envy, through jealousy, through hatred, through imitation; and the symptoms are jealously, envy, greed, fear, the wanting to copy, and so on. As long as inwardly that is so, there is confusion. You are always seeking for outward answers, but it is only when the confusion is cleared that you will know the significance of existence.