Dear friend,

You say in the forum description the following:

"in all his talks and dialogues, K used the 'negation' of what is false while being careful to not to let hope (time) of a positive outcome run the inquiry. But strangely, titles of many of his books are 'positive' - 'Freedom from the known', 'Freedom, Love and Action', 'Total Freedom'. This sets you on K exploration journey with hope to arrive at that 'freedom' by the time you finish the book."

I would like to enquire together, if you wish, into what it is that 'sets you on K exploration journey with hope to arrive...etc."? What is it? Is it the title of the book OR is it your reaction to that title? Obviously the latter. K's teachings are exactly about understanding what reaction/hope/expectation/thought is, psychologically. Through the understanding of what it is, comes its ending, and that is the "Freedom from the known."

regards, Mina

Dear Friend,

The reality of the consciousness is ''trapped in the known'' and ''freedom from the known'' is the ideal.

So, the exploration has a possibility of being directed (guided) towards the ideal.

The hope of being free from the known is interposed between ''I" and "what is"

I Am Not This!

Hello again, :-)

Manoj: The reality of the consciousness is ''trapped in the known'' and ''freedom from the known'' is the ideal.

The content of consciouness is made up of knowledge, ideas, words, language, memory, all that. (all the words describing the same here). It is clearly not possible for this content to imagine anything else but ideas/ideals of freedom, as you seem to be saying also...It may be misleading to say "trapped in the known" because that would imply there is an entity separate from the content trapped in it or needing to be free.

Manoj: So, the exploration has a possibility of being directed (guided) towards the ideal.

Yes, that kind of exploration is clearly a movement in the known, from the known towards the known, leading to more of what it is, the known. Simple enough mathematics, yes? :-) Feels like bathing in dirty water trying to get the dirt off.. So it seems that if we start an enquiry knowing that 'we are trapped' for example, we are no longer free to enquire, but we have already concluded something and enquiry then takes place from that (any)limited conclusion/ thought and can only lead to more thought/ideas.

Quite. It is as limiting to begin with a conclusion as it is to begin with a goal.

I Am Not This!

Manoj SachDeva wrote:

Quite. It is as limiting to begin with a conclusion as it is to begin with a goal.

Yes, right. To begin with any idea is the same,(goal, conclusion etc) and it means psychological knowledge/observer has already been formed to then 'enquire' or do anything at all. In that case it is clear enquiry has stopped even before it started, and has been replaced by psychological time/becoming which clouds timeless perception.

I understand. But this is the fact that all my actions are ''in time'' - from a pattern, for a goal. It is all so mechanical, repetitious. I see it clearly as a concept. But the pattern continues and I sense a helplessness to break from the past.

I Am Not This!

Manoj SachDeva wrote:

I understand. But this is the fact that all my actions are ''in time'' - from a pattern, for a goal. It is all so mechanical, repetitious. I see it clearly as a concept. But the pattern continues and I sense a helplessness to break from the past.

Hello friend. No wonder a sense of helplessness to break from the pattern THAT WE ARE, is experienced. I do not see it is possible at all. How can you run away from your own sweat so to say? And you could not sense this helplessness if there was no idea in your mind that 'a pattern should be broken', which is clearly the same pattern at work. See how the experience of helplessness is created?

What happens when NOTHING is done (no thought acticated) "to break the pattern". Where is the pattern then? It only comes into being if something is being attempted/done in a postive way. (positive here describing the movement of thought)

Of course by 'doing nothing' i am not talking about 'trying a new trick to get the desired outcome', but through/in seeing what the movement of thought/pattern IS which naturally brings about its cessation. Then there is no knowledge/pattern/outcomes/goals, only living in a very actual and concrete way without conceptual confusion.

It does not matter "if the pattern does not break", there is nothing that needs to be in any way.This is what i say with all my heart. That is the basis for unconditional love really, it demands nothing.

love, mina

Thank You Dear Friend.

You are saying that behind the helplessness to break the pattern is the desire to be different - the movement away from the truth of "what is".

When I see the impossibility of this - the fragment trying to become whole - the attempt to be whole, wise, enlightened stops.

The pattern is broken..

I Am Not This!