Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
Question authority | moderated by Randal Shacklett (account deleted)

Where is the origin of an experience of authority, (of anything at all)?

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Sat, 01 Aug 2009 #1
Thumb_desert Mina Martini Finland 1 post in this forum Offline

Dear Randal,

Happened to come across this reply of yours in the feedback-forum, and since it is directly related to the question of authority, decided to post it here.

Randal: "No, you see, if one posts slogans, like for instance, "life is relationship", when one has no clue what that means, one is being a false authority(master)."

Dear Randal,

Aren't you not, in your reply, ultimately describing your own experience (yourself) when/if the words of someone are taken to be coming from 'a false authority'?

Has not a separation between the inner and outer, the observer and the observed, already occurred?

Has not, in other words, "I know", already occurred?

Is that not the root of all authority?

Regards
Mina

This post was last updated by Mina Martini Sat, 01 Aug 2009.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009 #2
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 263 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Mina Martini wrote:

Dear Randal,

Happened to come across this reply of yours in the feedback-forum, and since it is directly related to the question of authority, decided to post it here.

Randal: "No, you see, if one posts slogans, like for instance, "life is relationship", when one has no clue what that means, one is being a false authority(master)."

Dear Randal,

Aren't you not, in your reply, ultimately describing your own experience (yourself) when/if the words of someone are taken to be coming from 'a false authority'?

Has not a separation between the inner and outer, the observer and the observed, already occurred?

Has not, in other words, "I know", already occurred?

Is that not the root of all authority?

Regards
Mina


Where is the problem of authority, if I see clearly? It's only when I am lost and confused that it is a problem, no?
Isn't my inability to find truth through the intellect mechanism, the enslaving factor for me? Knowledge has not been adequate(foolproof), in helping me find my way to conflict free relationships of all kinds in life. But since it is all I/we/you currently have, I/we/you/are dependant on it(beliefs/opinions/authority of knowledge).
All that other stuff about "observer and observed" and "inner and outer", is an inappropriate application.

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Sat, 08 Aug 2009 #3
Thumb_patricia_-_july_2013_4_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 30 posts in this forum Offline

Randal Shacklett wrote:
Knowledge has not been adequate(foolproof), in helping me find my way to conflict free relationships of all kinds in life.

Of course - the 'me' is stuck in trying to find a way out of conflict. There is no way out of conflict for the 'me'. Nothing to do with 'knowledge - don't blame 'knowledge' - it has a place. "Me" does not. "Me" IS conflict.

This post was last updated by Patricia Hemingway Sat, 08 Aug 2009.

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Sat, 08 Aug 2009 #4
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 263 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:

Randal Shacklett wrote:
Knowledge has not been adequate(foolproof), in helping me find my way to conflict free relationships of all kinds in life.

Of course - the 'me' is stuck in trying to find a way out of conflict. There is no way out of conflict for the 'me'. Nothing to do with 'knowledge - don't blame 'knowledge' - it has a place. "Me" does not. "Me" IS conflict.


Why do you say that me, is different from knowledge? There is no division. The observer(me) is the observed(knowledge).

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Sat, 08 Aug 2009 #5
Thumb_patricia_-_july_2013_4_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 30 posts in this forum Offline

There is technical knowledge, which has a place. Nothing technical about the "me" - it is a psychological construct of thought out-of-place.

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Sun, 09 Aug 2009 #6
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 263 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:

There is technical knowledge, which has a place. Nothing technical about the "me" - it is a psychological construct of thought out-of-place.


Wait wait wait wait wait, you made a distinction, between "me" the ego, and knowledge("nothing to do with knowledge"). I was simply pointing out, that the illusory psychological construct, you are calling "me", is a form of knowledge. That is the problem with verbal/intellectual understanding, it gets all confused in the mind.

This post was last updated by Randal Shacklett (account deleted) Sun, 09 Aug 2009.

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Sun, 09 Aug 2009 #7
Thumb_patricia_-_july_2013_4_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 30 posts in this forum Offline

It is quite clear if you go into it.

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Mon, 10 Aug 2009 #8
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 263 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:

It is quite clear if you go into it.


Verbal/intellectual understanding is clear, if you go into it? That's what most people believe, yes.

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Tue, 11 Aug 2009 #9
Thumb_avatar Clive Bunnett Australia 17 posts in this forum Offline

hi randal

You wrote:"Where is the origin of an experience of authority, (of anything at all)?"

Is this an actual question or do you already have a readymade answer? Do you expect an answer from someone else that you can then knock down? How does one approach such a question in a forum such as this? You seem to imply that all such activity is false. Are you saying that inquiry is not possible in a forum and that your purpose here is to point that out?

clive

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Tue, 11 Aug 2009 #10
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 263 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Clive Bunnett wrote:

hi randal

You wrote:"Where is the origin of an experience of authority, (of anything at all)?"

Is this an actual question or do you already have a readymade answer? Do you expect an answer from someone else that you can then knock down? How does one approach such a question in a forum such as this? You seem to imply that all such activity is false. Are you saying that inquiry is not possible in a forum and that your purpose here is to point that out?

clive


Clive, Baby, that's not my quote.
It was posted by someone else, to me, on my moderated forum, sorry.
But as to some of the good points you make, enquiry is not the exchange of opinions, is it? Enquiry is not simply repeating comforting slogans and celebrating how wonderful it is to be a Krishnamurti-ite, is it? What else, do you find here?
As to what my purpose is or isn't, what interest is that to you? If you don't mind me asking?

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