Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
Question authority | moderated by Randal Shacklett (account deleted)

If we the present generation cannot fully live these "teachings" of what use is it to preserve "them" for future generations ???

Closed_forum

Displaying all 11 posts
Page 1 of 1
Mon, 07 Sep 2009 #1
Thumb_morning_dew_8 Alistair Melville Australia 1 post in this forum Offline

Thank you for your honest reply........

Walk your talk

This post was last updated by Alistair Melville Wed, 09 Sep 2009.

Back to Top
Mon, 07 Sep 2009 #2
Thumb_avatar Huguette Milberg Canada 6 posts in this forum Offline

We all know that K said (more or less) that conflict and time end once there is understanding --- it is "over" then.

One may interpret that to mean that pain ends instantly. But as "I still suffer" and cannot face the pain, one is still comparing one's current state with the desired state and trying to decide what to do about it. There has been no fundamental change in relationship. The very raging at our failure IS part of the separative, self-centered movement (desire, effort and time).

Isn't there a movement of a completely different nature than thought in perceiving the falseness of self? To say so is not to measure and compare thought and perception, but to understand the significance of each. Thought is "inadequate" (a word used by K) for remedying relationship, like using sewage water to clean wounds. Better not to use anything than to use sewage water, no? Observing what is false is not measuring the false.

If at the first sign of pain, one resorts to the "old ways" of thought (effort, fragmentation, escape and pretense), one is still using sewage water to clean the wound. The danger has not been understood.

Action as we have known it through time has been determined by "me". But what is action outside of time, measure and comparison; outside of personal preference or choice? That is completely uncharted, unknown territory where one acts without knowing what the outcome will or should be. (Of course, one still knows many things and knowledge is used where appropriate.)

There is an assumption or conclusion in that question of "why we can't stop dancing around and get to the crux of the matter": that "we" have NOT GOTTEN to the crux of the matter. But if it is true that "We would rather hide behind the ideal of freedom", then so be it. Does my interest in truth or freedom depend on others? Does the flame of discontent burn in me or not? And if it does not, why do I think it should?

The universe moves, life moves --- galaxies, atoms, organic matter, mineral matter, unknown substances and dimensions. Within that universal movement, one can observe the self-centered, separative movement of thought, judging, evaluating, believing, following, measuring, concluding, causing havoc.

Back to Top
Mon, 07 Sep 2009 #3
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 2 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Thankyou, Huguette. I love your sermons...and I'm not being facetious.

Back to Top
Tue, 08 Sep 2009 #4
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 63 posts in this forum Offline

We are the only generation.... live it... why preserving it...is is already preserved..gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

Back to Top
Tue, 08 Sep 2009 #5
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 263 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Huguette Milberg wrote:
We all know that K said

Yes, and this is the problem, knowledge of what K says.

Back to Top
Sun, 13 Sep 2009 #6
Thumb_avatar Huguette Milberg Canada 6 posts in this forum Offline

Thank you, Alistair. I have been pondering your original posts even though you removed them. I'm not presuming that you or anyone else are interested in my reflections about it but, if not, it can obviously be ignored, or challenged.

One may sit, choicelessly aware --- cars are passing, voices are heard, the air touches the skin, the tongue is felt in the mouth, thoughts appear, an itch comes upon the foot.... without effort or preference, not enumerating, not taking inventory. In the same way, thought is observed. The thought comes from memory, but the observation does not.

This observation is a normal function of the brain (and perhaps beyond the brain) which cannot help but be aware, just as the heart cannot help but beat (until it stops), the ears cannot help but hear. It is not an extraordinary achievement which requires practice or takes time.

Thought asks rationally "what is seeing then, if it is not "I" who sees?" It doesn't know. All it can do is seek within the storehouse of knowledge and there is no answer to be found there. Thought understands that observation is outside the field of its competence; that there is something beyond its borders, beyond memory, reasoning, abstraction, extrapolation, belief, comparison, fear, anger, desire, etc., beyond the whole field of the known. Thought does see that.... limited understanding but understanding nonetheless. No?

Back to Top
Sun, 13 Sep 2009 #7
Thumb_avatar Huguette Milberg Canada 6 posts in this forum Offline

Thank you, Nick.

Back to Top
Sun, 13 Sep 2009 #8
Thumb_avatar Huguette Milberg Canada 6 posts in this forum Offline

Randall,

I don't see it as the problem.

We accept the authority of our own conclusions. We "know" what's what and the certainty of knowing blinds us. When one is willing to question and fully examine the scope of thought (knowledge, reasoning, abstracting, extrapolating, believing, comparing, judging, etc.) and its full significance, self-learning can take place. No?

Back to Top
Sun, 13 Sep 2009 #9
Thumb_avatar Huguette Milberg Canada 6 posts in this forum Offline

Randall,

I don't see it as the problem.

We accept the authority of our own conclusions. We "know" what's what and the certainty of knowing blinds us. When one is willing to question and fully examine the scope of thought (knowledge, reasoning, abstracting, extrapolating, believing, comparing, judging, etc.) and its full significance, self-learning can take place. No?

Back to Top
Thu, 17 Sep 2009 #10
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 63 posts in this forum Offline

allowing deliberately certain conditioning with all the awareness, does it mean one is conditioned.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

Back to Top
Thu, 17 Sep 2009 #11
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 263 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

ganesan balachandran wrote:
allowing deliberately certain conditioning with all the awareness, does it mean one is conditioned

Dealing with "what is" (conditioning), as a fact, is somewhat simpler than dealing as if "what should be" (awareness) were the fact, right?
But no one does that. We would all rather live in a fairy tale world of make believe. That is why relationship has not been "what is", all these centuries.

Back to Top
Displaying all 11 posts
Page 1 of 1
To quote a portion of this post in your reply, first select the text and then click this "Quote" link.

(N.B. Be sure to insert an empty line between the quoted text and your reply.)