"Thought has created this sense of lonliness, this emptiness, because it is limited , fragmentary, divided and when it realizes this, lonliness is not, therefore there is freedom from attachement." Have not been able to understand it beyond the verbal level, any explanations?

Transformation is instant

farha naaz wrote:

"Thought has created this sense of lonliness, this emptiness, because it is limited , fragmentary, divided and when it realizes this, lonliness is not, therefore there is freedom from attachement." Have not been able to understand it beyond the verbal level, any explanations?

Is there a sense of lonlyness when one is not thinking? Or maybe we should look at waht is craving and attachment in its relationship to lonliness. K maybe saying that it is only in the action of the self or ego that we experience this feeling of emptyness, without the actions of the self this sense is not there. Maybe when one observes the feelings that come up with the toughts that accompany them, one is able to end it simply by a state of being rather than thinking....?

Life is relationship

Hi Farha, I find that all of Jk teaching requires observation, perception. I would
say that contrary to that, there would be no purpose to is teaching,
perception, observation being our connection with life.
A good verbal explanation is a good start, this what JK is doing, giving
us good base information supported with fact, and we have to do the last
connection with our very personnel mind.

So your question is how do I do this last connection
so that this information integrate? Is this your question?

I don?t want to discourage you, but the contrary, this question is part of
your live, for the rest of your life. There is no technique, it is always new,
and you will need to always figure it out, this is one of the beauty in of all that.

So here we are talking about realization are we not?

True experimenting consists in understanding through our own alert watchfulness,

Why are we always looking for explanations?

Don?t they always supply us with even deeper confusion and new misunderstanding hence suffering and catching us on the verbal lever forever instead of giving expected understanding and relief?

Can we see the process of self-cheating in that desire to get explanations?

nosce te ipsum

This post was last updated by Victor Blackbird Sun, 26 Jul 2009.

Victor Blackbird wrote:
Can we see the process of self-cheating in that desire to get explanations?

Victor, if I may intervene in this discussion, I am interested to know how the desire to get explanations amounts to self cheating.

Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now

Prasanna P wrote:
Victor, if I may intervene in this discussion,

Hi, Prasanna P
Of course you may, that is what a forum for.

Prasanna P wrote:
how the desire to get explanations amounts to self cheating.

To understand this question, to find a real answer and not only to get some explanations from me or anyone else, it is necessary to understand the nature of desire per se.

Many people (especially in India) have since ancient times known that desire, wish, will and all that sort has an illusory nature and is holding a man in that circle of repetitive actions and reactions which they call human life.

Buddha and Krishnamurti they are unanimous in this point.

Freedom of any desire makes silence in human mind. That silence opens a new dimension of consciousness and contains real answers to all human questions, not only verbal explanations.

However generally, human being doesn?t know very much about real silence but they know a lot about words and feelings; they used to give and get explanations. That way the verbal artificial being supersedes the real one which is pristine and natural for human being.

A man cannot ever be satisfied with verbal answers however clear and true they might seem to be; time comes and the same question will be asked again and again.
That is a process of self-cheating.

What we all need is to see that following any desire is nothing but chasing a dream and a dream can never lead us to reality. That way our mind will be getting naturally quiet.

To see that phenomenon we have to explore, to know ourselves, our ego because it is our own, our private desire.

nosce te ipsum

Discussion, you talking with me, is a normal affair. Then a topic is raised which is a different reality to discussion between people. Like I am looking at something indescribable. There is no discussion. You can share the viewing, that's all there is to it. Are you happy not having discussion, only standing alone sharing the viewing? Faced with this constant demand for discussion, i can figure out how to talk with you, and not stop viewing. This is a very different to talking in discussion, because you have to listen as if you are the original viewer.

Victor Blackbird wrote:
A man cannot ever be satisfied with verbal answers however clear and true they might seem to be; time comes and the same question will be asked again and again. That is a process of self-cheating.

Oh God ! How can you call it self cheating? Although there seems to be a point in what you say, the term self cheating baffled me. Why don't you call it 'insatiable' or never fulfilling desire etc. ? I think, I will be cheating myself, when I have got a wrong answer and I claim or think that I have the right answer. Isn't it ?

Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now

Prasanna P wrote:
Oh God ! How can you call it self cheating? Although there seems to be a point in what you say, the term self cheating baffled me. Why don't you call it 'insatiable' or never fulfilling desire etc. ? I think, I will be cheating myself, when I have got a wrong answer and I claim or think that I have the right answer. Isn't it ?

I beg you, be baffled, Prasanna, as long as you can hold it because any instant you are thinking ?Eureka!? you have been caught by your own believing and you are cheating yourself.
Only if you are baffled you have a chance to get out and never if you a convinced you know truth.

Your answer can never be right because it always is only an insignificant part of truth and in fact is always null and void.

Human?s mind is just incapable to accommodate truth. This is the whole problem of it and here is the cause of mankind?s tragedy.

Truth, reality is an entirely special thing; has nothing to do with fragmentary facts a man is accustomed to deal with.

nosce te ipsum

Peter Stephens wrote:
Discussion, you talking with me, is a normal affair. Then a topic is raised which is a different reality to discussion between people. Like I am looking at something indescribable. There is no discussion. You can share the viewing, that's all there is to it. Are you happy not having discussion, only standing alone sharing the viewing? Faced with this constant demand for discussion, i can figure out how to talk with you, and not stop viewing. This is a very different to talking in discussion, because you have to listen as if you are the original viewer.

< If you had to sum up what Krishnamurti is all about in just a few words of your own, what would they be?

Meditation and attention.>

I like your answer very much, Peter, but look ? Meditation is not different from Attention, is it?

nosce te ipsum

Just a few words.