Religion demolishes compassion, concentrates wealth and resources in the hands of few, empowers governments, murders dissidents and is judge and jury of all. Religion is humanity?s bitter curse. This is the world we share and if there in truth in JK?s teachings I am that, I am the world. To change that (or is to perceive something different?) the network of the I- Time-Thought dissolves. What emerges? Is it a world without war, division, inequality, slaughter, starvation or is it a person who can live more tranquilly in this insanity?

You seem to be saying that religion is the organizing force in this world. Did you forget there are also beautiful accomplishments in all the religions? If you are the world, then you are the accumulation of all the religions as well. You are the microcosm affecting the macro when the network of I * Time* Thought dissolves. Only you can know what happens, no one can answer that for you.

Arthur, would you care to give us some examples of some of the "beautiful accomplishments" of religion?

You know fire has some very good qualities: It can warm us, give us light in the dark and we can cook our food on it. But when it is burning your house down around you then it is hard to think of it as anything but destructive. Can't you see that religion is likewise destroying us? Look at all of the wars today and in the past that have been caused, at least in part, by religion. Look how religion keeps us seperated, divided and full of hate for those belonging to the other religion.

Religion is a dead-end. Belief is the ending of exploration, of inquiring, of learning, of living itself. Religion thrives on indolence and ignorance. As Karl Marx pointed out, religion is the opiate of the people. I am convinced that there can be no real progress in human relationship as long as there is religion.

Arthur, religion is a mixture as it can leave people feeling secure and good about their lives. It can give people some sort of path and explain away confusion. But overall it is deadly as David has pointed out as well. I have tossed all religion and started fresh, except I am not free of my hostility over it. When that is gone, religion will no longer be an issue for me.

I want to thank everyone for your views and contributions to this topic. I will be traveling several weeks and not have immediate access to the internet. JK has left us in the hands of the ultimate teacher, ?what is?. I look forward to returning to this forum soon

Zahira Alaskar wrote:
Religion is humanity?s bitter curse.

It is common to blame one's religion, race or nationality if one commits crimes in the names these or even otherwise if he just belongs to it.. We also appreciate their religions or nationality, if they are doing some good service in the name of their religions or nationality.

In the light of the above, it may be important to understand the process of the mind. Until we understand that, it may not be possible to find the cause of all destruction, wars, deprivation and so on. Religion as I said elsewhere in other forums, is just one of the numerous intellectual or knowledge areas, like politics, economics, education, money and so on.

Whole mankind is fragmented or semi-consciousness, wherein it isn't wrong or right, fully and always. The broad variation in their conditioning has created a kind of hierarchy of intelligence and every human being occupies his slot according to the level of conditioning. In other words most humans are followers at some times and following at other times. Unless one is free from conditioning, one can't get of this alternates and lead a free life. There is a slide showing this in my Theory of Fragmentation of Intelligence.

Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now

It seems self evident through casual observation that both organized religion and nationalism are divisive institutions.

As an example, in the United States we have been told from the time we could walk what a wonderful, powerful, compassionate nation this is. And of course that is all nonsense. The US has been steadily moving into fascism since the Second World War. The US supplies more arms and instigates more wars than any other nation on earth. But try to convince the average, intelligent person in the United States that this is true. It is very hard if not impossible to do. And so it is with religion. The Christian religion has been, until recently perhaps, the bloodiest religion the world has ever seen. Now with the fanatical, fundalmentalist Muslim lunatics I am not sure if they haven't overtaken Christianity in being the most blood thirsty. Both of these religions are now at war with each other. And the Zionists are playing both off against each other. What a mess.

If we don't start understanding, as a species, how destructive organized religion and nationalism are we may not be around much longer. Human beings are at odds with Nature, with life itself on this planet. We are like a virus attacking the living body of the earth. We must change or perish. I think it is just that simple.

David Loucks wrote:
David Loucks, Wed, 05 Aug 2009, 7:48pm
Prasanna, are you aware that your statements pretty much throughout this forum seem to minimize what others are saying?

Hi, David. Thanks for giving your opinion. If my statements get no further response, what can I do? It may also mean that it may be true or convincing to others also. Just think over and get back.

I think the woman who started this thread has a valid point. She was passionate and articulate in her statement. That doesn't make her right but it doesn't make her wrong either.>

Yes, her points are valid. I too agree with you. No one can say other's points are wrong and one's only is right. Every one is free to express one's opinion.

You seem to thrive on over intellectualizing, if I may say so.

David, I am actually minimally intellectualizing, is the comment from others. Please try to understand the message, and reply appropriately, instead of getting emotional and aiming at the messenger.

I think you like to hear yourself talk.>

No, David. I would like to hear from you and everyone also on the topic about the discrepancies in my posts for which I shall be grateful. If I am happy to hear mine only, why should I come here ?

You seem to have a need to override whatever anyone else says with your over-generalized opinions.>

Your assumption may not be right. I don't want to override others opinions. I am just giving mine. I would look forward to get more valid points from you.

Human beings are at odds with Nature, with life itself on this planet.>

David, You are right here.

We are like a virus attacking the living body of the earth.>

David, Here may I point out a discrepancy ? Viruses are also natural organisms and their natural characteristic is to attack and multiply only when they are on host cells. Otherwise, they are generally dormant.

However, human problem is very very simple. Original human nature isn't of violence, according to both K and me.

However, according to me, it is just a small perceptive error that is causing the whole problem. It is like a mere calibration error.

You don't have to agree with me. They are my views and you are free to give your opinion or view or perception.

Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now

Prasanna, you had me fooled for awhile. I really thought you were serious. But now I see that you are pulling our legs. No one can be as offensively condescending as you are or as egotisical to the point of megalomania and be serious.

You are a very lonely man are you not? Please, you don't have to go to all of this trouble to communicate with others. You don't need to try to ascert your authority on everything everyone else expresses. Relax. We can be your friends if you would only give us a chance.

You could start by telling us your real name and what you really do. Trust us.

David Loucks wrote:
We can be your friends if you would only give us a chance.
You could start by telling us your real name and what you really do. Trust us.

David, I trust you entirely. But before that, can you please tell me, how did you come to know all these characteristics about me ?

Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now

Zahira Alaskar wrote:

Religion demolishes compassion, concentrates wealth and resources in the hands of few, empowers governments, murders dissidents and is judge and jury of all. Religion is humanity?s bitter curse. This is the world we share and if there in truth in JK?s teachings I am that, I am the world. To change that (or is to perceive something different?) the network of the I- Time-Thought dissolves. What emerges? Is it a world without war, division, inequality, slaughter, starvation or is it a person who can live more tranquilly in this insanity?

Hi, reading this i do remember when i was feeling the same way about religion, long ago. Since, i understood the problem is not religion, it is the conditionning of human being.
The very need of understanding human conditionning, the very need of discovering what it is to be "a human being", one can call 'religion'.
Organised religion, politics or whatever will always give problems to humanity. Maybe from here a question rises: can humanity live without organisation?
'I am the world' is a fact. Perceiving at any time ones conditionning, frees from participating into chaos, from adding to insanity. One will never acept insanity as the normal way of being, neither will one live tranquilly within.
For as i feel, living orderly within insanity is changing insanity, it is changing all surrounding one. Without effort, timeless, choiceless.

yes, indeed, life is fascinating, beautifull, without words!

not to be in order to be

maryse vm wrote:
Hi, reading this i do remember when i was feeling the same way about religion, long ago. Since, i understood the problem is not religion, it is the conditionning of human being.

That ends the issue perhaps !

Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now

if only...

if only people could be impartial to
religion, they would know why people
are partial to it - Chesterton -

people being people who do not realize the human condition have not hope of the proper perspective, to realize with the fresh unspoilt objective innocence of someone who discovers something for the first time - there is a sci fi series by Asimov - The Foundation Trilogy - it is a long history of the future and in one of them there is a planet where religion is used to deliberately manipulate the entire population... i think i can safely say there is no covert conspiracy to make people worship on earth, which is not to say that there arent people who think it proper form to worship without any faith at all in what they are doing... and they are not only not intent on goodness, they think goodness is stupid... whatever evil has befallen men in the name of religion, i think it is safe to say, brutal leaders are not good at all but brutal religious leaders are worse because they claim to be all about the humanity

Health care is everyone's job, not just in treating illness but in promoting healthy living. We must take personal responsibility, engaging our minds and hands in meaningful work - all essential components of healthy, secure lifestyles and communities.

Leaders both political and religious, whether appearing to be brutal or not, are busy giving their own solution to human problems. Whether better or worse than one another, the whole edifice of leadership and their following seems to have been created due to some technical snag in human consciousness, which needs serious investigation. Leadership in animal or birds kingdom, wherever it seems to exist, is limited to that of being a guide without hypocrisy, rather than an oppressor.

Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now