Understanding is ever in the present, not in the future. And the mind refuses to discern immediately because this involves an intelligent revolt against all that it has built up in its search for its own security

If the truth is that there is no security, yet "the mind" builds up and searches for "its own security", the mind has yet to realize the truth.

Why doesn't the mind realize there is no security and quit its building and searching? What does it take? Not time, obviously, because realization is immediate. So what's missing, lacking, deficient? Why doesn't the mind do what it must to free itself of obsessive futility? Could it be because it just isn't ready for realization? Could it be that realization would be lost on it at this time because it hasn't even begun to question its own behavior? Could it be because the mind is stubbornly wallowing in belief and vain hope for the future?

This post was last updated by lidlo lady Mon, 16 Jan 2012.

You may not be parroting K, but that is what he also asked.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

A thought provoking wright up.I wonder if I have ready made answers?

I am that Iam.

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Mon, 16 Jan 2012.

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
I wonder if I have ready made answers?

My ears fly open, my eye opens, as does this light that is fixed in my heart. My mind flies up, straining in to the distance. What shall I say? What shall I think?
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

lidlo lady wrote:
Why doesn't the mind realize there is no security and quit its building and searching? What does it take? Not time, obviously, because realization is immediate. So what's missing, lacking, deficient? Why doesn't the mind do what it must to free itself of obsessive futility? Could it be because it just isn't ready for realization? Could it be that realization would be lost on it at this time because it hasn't even begun to question its own behavior? Could it be because the mind is stubbornly wallowing in belief and vain hope for the future?

or just fear of not being? If the self is not who or what am I? Do I even exist?

Fear and the I are the same....

lidlo lady wrote:
Understanding is ever in the present, not in the future. And the mind refuses to discern immediately because this involves an intelligent revolt against all that it has built up in its search for its own security

That is very important, is there time in understanding? I understood yesterday but today I don't?

lidlo lady wrote:
If the truth is that there is no security, yet "the mind" builds up and searches for "its own security", the mind has yet to realize the truth.

Why if? Is there security in the self? Have you found security in the self?

If we did, we will all be wonderfully living in bliss and joy....are we living in bliss and joy?

ganesan balachandran wrote:
What shall I think?
gb

Could I be still?

I am that Iam.

Amber Cinquini wrote:
Is there security in the self?

I wonder if it is a fact?But there is a belief that self provides security.At least that is what market promotes.

I am that Iam.

Amber Cinquini wrote:
I understood yesterday but today I don't?

It seems to suggest that underastanding is simply a fuction of the past/knowldge,or relative to what one knows already.Well, this is the situation in most of the cases,but I wonder if it holds good every time?

I am that Iam.

lidlo lady wrote:
So what's missing, lacking, deficient? Why doesn't the mind do what it must to free itself of obsessive futility? Could it be because it just isn't ready for realization? Could it be that realization would be lost on it at this time because it hasn't even begun to question its own behaviour? Could it be because the mind is stubbornly wallowing in belief and vain hope for the future?

Hello , my impression...there is the analytical brain-mind , superficial by need and nature to be capable to react swiftly. you are at me so I kill you...
It seems to me that we miss the hidden "me", hidden and globally ignored by the superficial self , and it is mainly this hidden "me" where I have seen are stored most unsolved problems, unsolved problems being usually very active cravings which are never reached . It can be anything really from I hate my jumper to I'd like to be immortal and a god.....well just stupid examples but it could be as stupid as that, the sorrow is in the distance between I want and it does not happen, not much in the subject itself..

so far this seems to say : I want in first position is wrong...this will never be seen by the analyse , there seem to be an impossible contact from the analytical brain towards the hidden "me" (hidden "me" is a k saying)...when the hidden is revealed on the contrary it shows itself to the analytical mind too..

k saying on it:Secondly, in regard to the unconscious with which we are not familiar, we have to get acquainted with it - and it is difficult. There is the hidden part of me, the hidden part of you with which you are not familiar, as familiar as you are with your conscious mind. To become familiar with it, to know all the contents of it, requires an attention, an observation which is attentive - not in terms of condemnation or justification, but merely attentive

the hidden seems to have some different capacities like the one to constantly referring to what we consider as sorrow or discontentment, which seems to be a signal of the wrong way. When this disturbance is left free to be it may produce the revealing of some hidden origin creating pain, then if it is perceived that it produces sorrow , it is automatically removed, brings immediate relief, explains and bring energy to the all body mind...

when the superficial "me" is lost in theories, the hidden "me" acts ,when it is given a chance to work.....this may partially tell why the mind does not free itself , because the analyse just cannot do that...only some recent view on that..no more , no less..cheers...Dan.

Dan.

This post was last updated by Daniel Dan Mon, 16 Jan 2012.

lidlo lady wrote:
Why doesn't the mind do what it must to free itself of obsessive futility?

The fact is that mind does everything to ensure its security. The problem is that being mechanical it is forced to choose its option of action from what is already known to it. Until it starts questioning its limited abilities to bring security in free flowing movement of life, status quo will remain.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

Amber Cinquini wrote:
Fear and the I are the same....

Before this understanding "I" is escape from fear in so many ways...in such escaping is the existence of fear.

When fear and "I" are the same, is there any fear?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
ganesan balachandran wrote:

What shall I think?
gb

ArjunaRao: Could I be still?

First question would lead to more of the darkness. Can the same fate be avoided for the second question?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

This post was last updated by Dr.sudhir sharma Mon, 16 Jan 2012.

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Can the same fate be avoided for the second question?

Could there be effortless stillness?

I am that Iam.

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Could there be effortless stillness?

Still mind is observing the creative movement of life. So it is full of integrated energy. That energy has come by understanding effort to become still and going beyond. Effort or lack of it will not relate to stillness as they belong to/in different dimensions. What do you say?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
What do you say?

I say you're full of it, doc.

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
What shall I think?

he is aware of the limitations.
so he remains still.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Still mind is observing the creative movement of life.

I wonder if the stlill mind ever claims that it is observing.It is the mind which is not still is saying it.Is n't so?

I am that Iam.

lidlo lady wrote:
Why doesn't the mind do what it must to free itself of obsessive futility? Could it be because it just isn't ready for realization?

I would not think that it has any thing to do with realization, because realization comes with the looking and observing of something, so in a way we are the timing.
Some things, (futility) we have grew comfortable with, and we don’t see the importance of clearing them out. May be our prime attraction to K teaching was base
on the need to functioned normally in our society. We may have lost the feeling of emergency that we had? Can effortless be miss understood at time ?

True experimenting consists in understanding through our own alert watchfulness,

ganesan balachandran wrote:
he is aware of the limitations.
so he remains still.

Can you connect this observation to Intelligence, gb?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
I wonder if the stlill mind ever claims that it is observing.It is the mind which is not still is saying it.Is n't so?

From where does the energy come for the mind to become still? Is it not the energy freed from the fragmentation? Now why would the still mind go back to making statements like the fragmented mind?

Still mind is observing without any resistance and leaks no energy in making any claims. The fragmented mind makes all kind of claims but can not observe without resistance. 'mind has become still' can only be claimed by a fragmented mind, right?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

The baloney you crank out, doctor, is deplorable.

Schoolyard taunts. Who does that help? Makes you feel superior perhaps? Feeds the ego? Feels good?

No. I find it depressing when people like you and the doctor blabber on knowingly as if you have some kind of understanding. All you have is a head full of K-isms that you keep regurgitating in one form or another. It's disgusting, to tell you the truth.

lidlo lady wrote:
All you have is a head full of K-isms that you keep regurgitating in one form or another.

But you don't know that because you refuse to go there yourself and find out first-hand. Until you do, you will always be attacking others that you suspect may possibly have done so.

lidlo lady wrote:
It's disgusting, to tell you the truth.

It's opinion, to tell you the truth. Signifying nothing, to tell you the truth.

Your vigorous defense of your indefensible position is admirable, I suppose, but it's quite tiresome. You can't say anything interesting and you're doing nothing for the cause of inquiry, which is supposedly what this forum is about, so why don't you retire to your K-temple and chant the K-mantras that sustain you, or start your own forum for unquestioning K-twits?

lidlo lady wrote:
Your vigorous defense of your indefensible position is admirable, I suppose, but it's quite tiresome. You can't say anything interesting and you're doing nothing for the cause of inquiry, which is supposedly what this forum is about, so why don't you retire to your K-temple and chant the K-mantras that sustain you, or start your own forum for unquestioning K-twits?

Again - no. This forum is as good a place as any to challenge the complacency of thought stuck-in-a-rut, and clinging on to its petty little security at all cost.

It is an open forum, and I do not come here to insult others. Only to challenge such thought, in myself, and if it occurs, in anyone who happens to be listening.

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
It is an open forum, and I do not come here to insult others. Only to challenge such thought, in myself, and if it occurs, in anyone who happens to be listening.

I don't come here to insult others, either, but you and others here are an insult to those with intelligence enough to question K, and I won't conceal my disdain for the likes of you.

lidlo lady wrote:
I don't come here to insult others,

That is pretty much all you have been doing actually, but it would seem you are the only one who fails to see that.

T