"Why do you search out guidance and advice, why do you desire direction?"

Answer this question honestly, K-believer, and you are released on your own recognizance. Answer it in the way you are accustomed to and you are retained in the comforting bosom of your fellow believers.

Guidance and advice is a big bussiness in the world,no matter which feild it is sought.It is desire, after all, it needs direction, therefore one seeks direction.Perhaps this quote is some thing conected with the unknown.One always speculates about the things that they are not sure.There is a theory of uncertainity in academic world.Indeed there is no freedom in such situations,for one is in search what one desires. Psychology born out necessacity to give guidance to those who could not hold themselves/not sure of themselves.

I am that Iam.

If one is to know oneself, the information/gudance sought from others is of second hand.In such seeking one looses one's freedom.But out of ten people, at least more then half of them would not be in a position to speak out what they are.It is really tough for few people to have self-knowldge of their own.Such people are habituated to seek advice.Guides and advisors are for such people.But those who have read JK's teachings and understood them, do they need such indulgence, is a mute question.

I am that Iam.

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Sun, 05 Feb 2012.

lidlo lady wrote:
Answer this question honestly, K-believer, and you are released on your own recognizance.

On the 22nd of March 1935 a devotee asked Ramana Maharshi in his Ashram :

***D.: Are jivanmuktas (living liberated souls) of different kinds?

Maharshi: What does it matter if they differ externally?

There is no difference in their wisdom (jnana).

D.: When loyal to one Master can you respect others?

Maharshi: Guru is only one. He is not physical. So long as there is weakness the support of strength is needed.

D.: J. Krishnamurti says, "No Guru is necessary?"

Maharshi: How did he know it? One can say so after realising but not before.

"D.: You have gained this state by great effort. What shall we poor souls do?

Maharshi: We are in our Self. We are not in the world.***"

Krishnamurti followed the Theosophists until his thirties. Did he make a mistake? Did he want to make his own experience? Was he doomed to face his sorrow after his brother's death?

May be he did his own "Homework", and realised alone that nobody, no religious organizations, no master can save him.

Then he came along and say "Why do you search out guidance & advice, why do you desire direction? "

Because we have not realised, because we are in the dark. Duh!!

K. Kennedy wrote:
Because we have not realised, because we are in the dark.

K.K, even I doubt if there any realization kind of thing is ever possible.

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
K.K, even I doubt if there any realization kind of thing is ever possible

I do not know dhirendra, but if I were / you were in a dark room, you probably grope your way through the darkness? By searching the light switch or a helping hand or whatever it is, don't you / we?

K. Kennedy wrote:
if I were / you were in a dark room, you probably grope your way through the darkness? By searching the light switch or a helping hand or whatever it is, don't you / we?

Yes, I do.

I don't know

K.K. it's interesting that Ramana realized without any help of outer Guru.

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
Yes, I do.

Thank you for your honesty Dhirendra, I will do the same too.

So life as it is -at least for me- is a dark room.

dhirendra singh wrote:
it's interesting that Ramana realized without any help of outer Guru.

Yes he did. He repeated again and again that this was his destiny. But it is not allowed to everyone.

He insisted that the Guru is inside each one of us.

K said more or less the same thing something like ; " You are the pupil, the master, the guru... You are everything. So.......?

K. Kennedy wrote:
So life as it is -at least for me- is a dark room.

Well, same here, but probably whatever I have done, didn't end the darkness.Probably we do efforts till we realize the futility of that.

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
I doubt if there any realization kind of thing is ever possible.

Okay, understood your doubt, but what else? Stay in ignorance with our doubts? Doubt is ignorance isn't it?

Or work hard to find out?

K. Kennedy wrote:
K said more or less the same thing something like ; " You are the pupil, the master, the guru... You are everything. So.......?

Yes I remember K said it.So it's within.:)

I don't know

K. Kennedy wrote:
Or work hard to find out?

Which kind of work, what to do?

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
but probably whatever I have done, didn't end the darkness.Probably we do efforts till we realize the futility of that.

May be our efforts are not futile, but only not sufficent, or not where they might / should be.

Anyway, thanks for the exchange of the above. Maybe in another dimension, another life or another world we'll be realized, This is imagination of course.

Good luck Dhirendra.

dhirendra singh wrote:
Which kind of work, what to do?

To take time to be alone and look inside, again, again and again, endlessly........

K. Kennedy wrote:
May be our efforts are not futile, but only not sufficent, or not where they might / should be.

Yes, quite possible.

K. Kennedy wrote:
thanks for the exchange of the above.

Thank you too, though I expected a longer conversation.;)

K. Kennedy wrote:
Good luck Dhirendra.

Thank you, all I need is good luck to enlightenment:)

I don't know

K. Kennedy wrote:
To take time to be alone and look inside, again, again and again, endlessly.....

I got it, master.:)

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
I got it, master.:)

Watch out!!!! A master in the dark will take you down..... too down, he,he,....... that's dangerous. I may be Sarouman in "The Lord of the Ring" or "Dark Vador" in "Star Wars"

K. Kennedy wrote:
Watch out!!!! A master in the dark will take you down..... too down, he,he,....... that's dangerous.

;)

I don't know

K. Kennedy wrote:
Krishnamurti followed the Theosophists until his thirties. Did he make a mistake?

He was taken by the Theosophists as a child. He didn't "follow" them so much as do what he was told by his captors. If I'm not mistaken, he was 28 when he went on his own.

lidlo lady wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, he was 28 when he went on his own.

Yes you are mistaken, he was 34. But this is not the most important in the response.

K was 14 when "he was told what to do by his captors" And during two decades he had followed, had wrote and had thouhgt as a theosophist, before going on his own.

Thanks for the correction.

I wouldn't hold K's acceptance of theosophy against him because it was his negation of it that mattered. If he had never said another word after that "truth is a pathless land" speech in which he dissolved The Order of The Star, we would never have had a K cult or a clutch of K-ites parroting his words. It would have been better if he had walked away after telling people to quit following leaders and be a light to themselves, but he did have to make a living.

dhirendra singh wrote:
I doubt if there any realization kind of thing is ever possible.

that is realization.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

lidlo lady wrote:
but he did have to make a living.

"Father, forgive lidlo, for it does not know what it is doing."

Ravi Seth wrote:
"Father, forgive lidlo, for it does not know what it is doing."

yes, he didn't go for it.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

Does one require guidance and advice for freedom?(A fundamental question; to put the discussion on track)Why should one take it when the urge to do what one likes to do is there?

I am that Iam.

K. Kennedy wrote:
Krishnamurti followed the Theosophists until his thirties. Did he make a mistake? Did he want to make his own experience? Was he doomed to face his sorrow after his brother's death?

Reaching full maturity he was ready to do what he had to do.

Jesus - if we are to go along what history tells us - was pretty idle too until he was 30.

T

B Teulada wrote:
Jesus - if we are to go along what history tells us - was pretty idle too until he was 30.

Has this Jesus ever existed ?

Dan.

This post was last updated by Daniel Dan Mon, 06 Feb 2012.

K posed the rhetorical question, "Can a menu be of any help to a hungry man?"

Obviously a menu cannot substitute for food, but it may point the hungry man to the correct food. Also, a good book on human nutrition could help.

There is a word in English called 'pondering.' I have found that pondering the words of wisdom of K and others can lead me into a deeper inquiry. It is not the word itself but its triggering effect that awakens the curiosity and the sense of urgency required.

The recorded words of K are commonly known among those who value it as 'the teaching.' K did not like the words, teaching, teacher or the Indian equivalent, 'guru.' Yet he did use them, for lack of better.

Is there a teacher and a taught? Or is there just the fact of life which we are a part of and our confusions which hide it?

Thought gets locked into itself in tight circles and if someone comes along and invites me to look critically at some irrational thing that I am doing I will thank them and value their kind assistance. It is like giving a glass of water to a thirsty man, an act of pure kindness.

If that person tells me that there is a water that endures and which ends all thirst, it may fascinate me. Then either he tells me to follow him to that water or he tells me that the font is within me.

Can I discern the difference between the two tellings?