To create a truly collective movement, there must be the awakening of the individual. I am concerned with that awakening. If each individual awakens in himself that true intelligence, then he will bring about collective welfare, without exploitation and cruelty.

The K-cultist doesn't ask whether the above words are true because they constitute an article of his/her faith. But the truth is that the K-cultist can't know what, if anything, will "bring about collective welfare without exploitation and cruelty" unless he/she is incapable of exploitation and cruelty due to having undergone a radical transformation, a mutation of the brain, which he/she obviously has not.

Standing outside the K-cult and observing these toothless ninnies gumming the K-nut they can't crack, I have to say it's a curious phenomenon. If it's possible for one to awaken in the sense Krishnamurti conveyed, and if Krishnamurti felt that his words would have the effect of inspiring and inciting people to such an awakening, how would he feel about the fact that so many of his listeners would rather use his words to fuel their dreams of awakening/being awake?

He would probably write them off as an unfortunate side-effect of his work; the unintended consequence of feeding solid food to those for whom mastication is unknown. When all you can do is gulp things down uncritically and spit things out reactively, the wisest, most sagacious sayings will be lost on you for your inability to digest anything more substantial than artificially flavored mush. And what's worse, these substantive sayings will be burped up as foul corruptions of what went down.

This post was last updated by lidlo lady (account deleted) Thu, 26 Apr 2012.

Lidlo Lady wrote:....nut they can't crack, I have to say it's a curious phenomenon. If it's possible for one to awaken in the sense Krishnamurti conveyed, and if Krishnamurti felt that his words would have the effect of inspiring and inciting people to such an awakening, how would he feel about the fact that so many of his listeners would rather....

Hi LL,

We are a grave disappointment to you. That is obvious. True, I don't get it, and I haven't changed. You know I look at your writings and those of Peng Peng and others and I see how I will probably never cop on. I just cannot figure it out. I'm sure I will die in this state. But at least there are some people out there like yourself who are willing to keep the debate going.

The ground you occupy is a barren place. There will be few comrades. Be grateful for the intelligence given to you and try not to be so angry about the shortcomings of the rest of us. We can still learn from each other.

But honestly I don't know what to say. It is as you have said. Find compassion. We don't know what we do. We never did and probably never will. K seemed to know that. That is what is. Sadly.

You are your search

Robert Clarke wrote:
Be grateful for the intelligence given to you and try not to be so angry about the shortcomings of the rest of us. We can still learn from each other.

Nothing was "given to" me and I don't know anything about "intelligence".

What you're calling "shortcomings" and would have me ignore or downplay, I feel the need to highlight and expose, regardless of whether anger is involved.

You say we can learn from each other, but how do you know whether you're learning or not? We've learned how to deceive ourselves. It took time, practice, but with each other's enabling and colluding, we eventually learned how to create a culture of self-deception, but can we "learn" to stop deceiving ourselves? Is time involved? Is seeing what we're doing a learned ability?

This post was last updated by lidlo lady (account deleted) Thu, 26 Apr 2012.

lidlo lady wrote:
I feel the need

I got it: Top Gun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUpwLhZh66A

end time

lidlo lady wrote:
Nothing was "given to" me

That also jolted my memory. I'm wondering where Lidlo's philosophical underpinnings come from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGdfPtW56fo&...

end time

"Nobody gives you power! Real power is something you take"!

arrrgghhh!

lidlo lady wrote:
arrrgghhh!

:)

Oh, I know where you got that quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubL99NCFNJI

end time

This post was last updated by Kali Yuga (account deleted) Thu, 26 Apr 2012.

lidlo lady wrote:
If each individual awakens in himself that true intelligence, then he will bring about collective welfare, without exploitation and cruelty.

The yellow birds clothed in waters fly up to the sky on the dark path. They have now returned from the home of Order, and at once the earth was drenched with butter.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

lidlo lady wrote:
Is seeing what we're doing a learned ability?

'seeing what we are doing' is not an ability that was learnt once and stored in memory to be used when required.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

Lidlo Lady wrote:....You say we can learn from each other, but how do you know whether you're learning or not? We've learned how to deceive ourselves. It took time, practice, but with each other's enabling and colluding, we eventually learned how to create a culture of self-deception, but can we "learn" to stop deceiving ourselves? Is time involved? Is seeing what we're doing a learned ability?

Ok. There is deception. From the moment we are born. The reasons why are less important than the fact. We are involved in it.

Can deception end? It is not only that we deceive ourselves but also that we are deceived by others. But can it end? I don't know.

But if you are free of deception, and looking at me trapped in it, what good is telling me what a dumb ass mother f***er I am.

And you are intelligent. I see it, you know it. No false modesty here.

You are your search

Lidlo Lady wrote:.....Nobody gives you power! Real power is something you take"!

BIG mistake! If you have power you must use it or lose it. Obviously you will use it if you took it. What would have been the point in taking it and not using it. What I want to know is; what will you do now that you are powerful?

You are your search

Robert, click on the link in post #7, then get back to me

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
'seeing what we are doing' is not an ability that was learnt once and stored in memory to be used when required.

Very good, doctor. That is the correct answer.

Robert Clarke wrote:
But if you are free of deception, and looking at me trapped in it, what good is telling me what a dumb ass mother f***er I am.

I hope I haven't been berating or belittling you. Teulada likes me to beat up on her and I get confused.

Robert Clarke wrote:
and looking at me trapped in it, what good is telling me what a dumb ass mother f***er I am.

About as good as agreeing with you..you see either way the trap remains?:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Robert Clarke wrote:
Can deception end? It is not only that we deceive ourselves but also that we are deceived by others. But can it end? I don't know.

When we don't like something, we want it to go away, to "end", even when it's something we're doing. Wanting something unwanted to end is turning away from what needs attention.