Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Was there or is there anyone changed?


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Tue, 03 Jul 2012 #1
Thumb_stringio Luis G Portugal 5 posts in this forum Offline

Hello,

My first posting is to place a question that I can't seem to find the answer to.

Is there or was there anyone changed by Krishnamurti's teachings ever?

It is extremly hard to go beyond the verbal meaning of the teachings. I have read many texts and seen inumerous videos but beyond that I can't seem to change anything. Is it, afterall, doable? Was it ever done, by anyone?

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Tue, 03 Jul 2012 #2
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Luis G wrote:
It is extremly hard to go beyond the verbal meaning of the teachings. I have read many texts and seen inumerous videos but beyond that I can't seem to change anything. Is it, afterall, doable? Was it ever done, by anyone?

There are many people who will tell you they've undergone the change, so unless you're willing to be persuaded by someone's testimony, you have no choice but to find out for yourself whether it's really possible to consciously transcend thought, or whether finding out is just too much work.

This post was last updated by lidlo lady (account deleted) Tue, 03 Jul 2012.

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Tue, 03 Jul 2012 #3
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Qdo Luis,

We are changed by everything all of the time. The idea that there is a fixed 'you' is a myth. But the changes are always in terms of modifications, alterations etc. K posited a radical change that would totally obliterate the psychological structure, end thought and time. No one ever managed to understand that, except some who have reached a sort of self-hypnotic acceptance of the validity of the proposal without a shred of evidence that it is possible. It is also doubtful that K either ended thought or time for himself.

Espero que voce achar que esta informacao e de interes.

SH

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Tue, 03 Jul 2012 #4
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
consciously transcend thought

What the hell is that?

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Tue, 03 Jul 2012 #5
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sun Hand wrote:
Espero que voce achar que esta informacao e de interes.

...... ouch ! .....

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Tue, 03 Jul 2012 #6
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dean R. Smith wrote:
What the hell is that?

That's what K-believers believe in.

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Tue, 03 Jul 2012 #7
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

B Teulada wrote:
...... ouch ! .....

Well, I better hope Lidlo don't start correcting my Portuguese.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Tue, 03 Jul 2012 #8
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:

Dean R. Smith wrote:
What the hell is that?

That's what K-believers believe in.

Oh, really? What is it supposed to be, though, if you know what those words are supposed point to, that is? :)

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Tue, 03 Jul 2012 #9
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dean R. Smith wrote:
That's what K-believers believe in.

Oh, really? What is it supposed to be, though, if you know what those words are supposed point to, that is? :)

If you've been following the discussion between the doctor and I, you'll see that though we agree that raw sense data needs to be processed before it has any meaning, I'm saying that it cannot be processed by anything but memory, and he's saying there's something beyond or other than memory that does the processing. I've asked him to explain and elaborate on this, but apart from using the phrase "pure perception" (which he has yet to define), he has explained nothing.

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Tue, 03 Jul 2012 #10
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
If you've been following the discussion between the doctor and I, you'll see that though we agree that raw sense data needs to be processed before it has any meaning, I'm saying that it cannot be processed by anything but memory, and he's saying there's something beyond or other than memory that does the processing. I've asked him to explain and elaborate on this, but apart from using the phrase "pure perception" (which he has yet to define), he has explained nothing.

That's a big 'no'. Today marks 352 days since the last visit to the forum. Anyways, nothing you said points to what that nonsensical phrase is suppose to be.

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #11
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Luis G wrote:
Is there or was there anyone changed by Krishnamurti's teachings ever?

It appears that you have come to the conclusion that you have not changed.It is others that have to tell you that whether you have changed or not.

nothing

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #12
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dean R. Smith wrote:
nothing you said points to what that nonsensical phrase is suppose to be.

It's his nonsense. Talk to him.

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #13
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
It is others that have to tell you that whether you have changed or not.

If I depended on others to tell me what's what, I'd be a believer like you.

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #14
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
It's his nonsense. Talk to him.

Could you give a reference for the doctor posting the phrase: "consciously transcend thought", please or is that your interpretation?

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #15
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

That's what it amounts to. He contends that it's possible to be conscious without memory, but he can't explain how.

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #16
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
That's what it amounts to. He contends that it's possible to be conscious without memory, but he can't explain how.

So, the phrase "consciously transcend thought" is your interpretation of the doctors contention that it's possible to be conscious without memory?

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #17
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dean R. Smith wrote:
So, the phrase "consciously transcend thought" is your interpretation of the doctors contention that it's possible to be conscious without memory?

Yes.

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #18
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

re: "So, the phrase "consciously transcend thought" is your interpretation of the doctors contention that it's possible to be conscious without memory?

">lidlo lady wrote:

Yes.

So, the nonsense phrase is yours and not the doctors. Would you say that the state in which memory is absent, is a state of awareness or would you say that there is no such state and are you differentiating between awareness and consciousness?

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #19
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady,

Some of the exchange between yourself and Dr.sudhir sharma on the other thread was just read. Your nonsense phrase is a bit more pertinent after reading about his particular form of delusion. How about we carry on with our conversation from the previous post without reference to the what you referred to on the other thread as (sounds like) magic? :)

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #20
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dean R. Smith wrote:
So, the nonsense phrase is yours and not the doctors.

I didn't say the phrase was nonsense. I said the concept is nonsense.
Don't be like Rick with his false attributions.

Dean R. Smith wrote:
Would you say that the state in which memory is absent, is a state of awareness or would you say that there is no such state and are you differentiating between awareness and consciousness?

Awareness differs from consciousness in that an unconscious organism can be aware, so don't conflate the two. What I'm saying is that consciousness involves knowledge - the literal meaning of the word is "with knowledge" - so when the doctor talks about consciousness that "bypasses memory" (his phrase), I feel an explanation is in order.

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #21
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
I didn't say the phrase was nonsense. I said the concept is nonsense.
Don't be like Rick with his false attributions.

Try to give a little attention. No one said you called the phrase 'nonsense'. If you can't remember who called the phrase 'nonsense', read back.

lidlo lady wrote:Awareness differs from consciousness in that an unconscious organism can be aware, so don't conflate the two. What I'm saying is that consciousness involves knowledge - the literal meaning of the word is "with knowledge" - so when the doctor talks about consciousness that "bypasses memory" (his phrase), I feel an explanation is in order.

Again, try to give attention. No one was conflating anything. You were asked a question.

There's no point in continuing this conversation with you. Your view is based on the dictionary.

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #22
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dean R. Smith wrote:
So, the nonsense phrase is yours and not the doctors

Dean R. Smith wrote:
No one said you called the phrase 'nonsense'. If you can't remember who called the phrase 'nonsense', read back.

And you're telling me to "give a little attention".

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #23
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
And you're telling me to "give a little attention".

You're just opinionated thought, the past, history. Wave goodbye.

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #24
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

Dean R. Smith wrote:
There's no point in continuing this conversation with you.

Dear Lidlo, if you won't, then I am going to pat myself on my back for continuing the heroic task of conversation with you without losing my patience/temper.:)

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #25
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
If I depended on others to tell me what's what, I'd be a believer like you.

What is the belief I am suppose to have which I am not aware myself,and you are aware of it?Please do not get confused and say that your conclusion is my belief.You loose your arguments with your instant conclusions.

What's what is one's own bussiness,for sure,but if there is a claim for any thing, one needs recognition at the appropriate level by appropriate people concerned.Unfortunatly you clash with such people.That is the problem.

nothing

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #26
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Luis G wrote:
Is there or was there anyone changed by Krishnamurti's teachings ever?

Possibly there were not many, I have read a book where writer claimed that K told him about two persons who changed after meeting with K, but it may not be an authentic claim.
And it's on the record that in his last days K said that no one is transformed.
Personally I think, among publicly known, there is not a single person who is changed by K teaching.(I say this because of my non enlightenometer ;))

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Wed, 04 Jul 2012.

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #27
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
Don't be like Rick with his false attributions.

Right..LOL

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #28
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dean R. Smith wrote:
You're just opinionated thought, the past, history. Wave goodbye.

BINGO!

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #29
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

It is doubtfull how many of the people who keenly followed JK experienced as he experienced the mutations along with 'process' that he is supposed to have undergone?But people who lived with keen followers of Jk must be able to feel the influence of JK over them,and how it affected their day to day affairs,and in turn the relationship among them(not necessarily sprituality but behavioural attitudes).

nothing

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Wed, 04 Jul 2012 #30
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

Luis G wrote:
Is there or was there anyone changed by Krishnamurti's teachings ever?

Why even ask that question? Cause and effect? That is the same-old-same-old routine surely.

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