Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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What it means to observe, to understand?


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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #1
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Is it an intellectual activity to understand psyche? Is it a mechanical activity to see the thought? Something similar to this is being discussed in other topics.I think it's a core issue in K teaching.

I don't know

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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #2
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Do you "understand psyche"? Do you "see the thought"? Unless you do, you don't know if such things are even possible. Why not be honest about your limitation before talking about exceeding it? The value of Krishnamurti is in the questions he raised - not the answers you take from him.

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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #3
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
Why not be honest about your limitation before talking about exceeding it

I am honest about my dishonesty.
I know that "I don't know".
That's why I am asking what is the 'understanding' so many time talked by K.
I have some knowledge of 'observation' through K.
But I don't know what he exactly mean by it.
I am just trying to understand what he meant by 'understanding'.
Though I am happy that you are always first to advise me.
This mean you care a lot about me.
So thanks a lot for your care and affection.

I don't know

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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #4
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
The value of Krishnamurti is in the questions he raised

I am also keeping them raised, little more.

I don't know

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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #5
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
not the answers you take from him.

His answers are his,if I am quoting him,am quoting with all due respect,...
But my answers are none, there are questions, questions and questions...

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Sat, 07 Jul 2012.

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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #6
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
That's why I am asking what is the 'understanding' so many time talked by K.

It's quite possible that K didn't understand so much as believe. People who are taken with K's "teaching" just assume he understood things more deeply than they, but be open to the possibility that he may have been thoroughly deluded.

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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #7
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5800 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
but be open to the possibility that he may have been thoroughly deluded.

Occasionally I try to convince myself that maybe you have something to say that's worthwile. I know you're making the above statement just to stir up trouble but I also think you really believe what you wrote.

In the end you're just a fool, a baffoon, who because you can't fathom what K was pointing out are set on blocking others from seeing for themselves. You seem to have nothing of any import to add to this forum but would rather just keep on with your anger, insults, distain and cynicism.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sat, 07 Jul 2012.

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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #8
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
In the end your are just a fool, a baffoon, who because you can't fathom what K was pointing out are set on blocking others from seeing for themselves. You seem to have nothing of any import to add to this forum but would rather just keep on with your anger, insults, distain and cynicism.

At least I can spell "buffoon".

When I say K may have been deluded I'm not saying that he was or he wasn't, and I realize the subtlety, the tentativeness of maintaining an open mind, is lost on the likes of a grunting oaf like you.

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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #9
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
be open to the possibility that he may have been thoroughly deluded.

Yes..take a good look at yourself..stop worrying so much about a dead person..good advice..take it an apply it to yourself for a change!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

This post was last updated by RICK LEIN (account deleted) Sat, 07 Jul 2012.

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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #10
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
and I realize the subtlety, the tentativeness of maintaining an open mind, is lost on the likes of

You Lord Lid!:) :) :) extra emoticons <<<<<just for you!LOL:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #11
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

dhirendra singh wrote:
Is it an intellectual activity to understand psyche? Is it a mechanical activity to see the thought? Something similar to this is being discussed in other topics.I think it's a core issue in K teaching.

The psyche,the consicious and unconsicious mind, is a study of psychology.You are able to look at it 'intellectually'this way,if you wish.Everything can be thought of as 'mechanical',if one wants to think in those terms only.
In the K-Mart,JK does not claim to know anything ,but stresses self discovery through your own efforts,he also commands you not to beleive a word he says.

lidlo lady wrote:
At least I can spell "buffoon

Baffoon and buffoon are both ok,baffoon is a morph.

This post was last updated by john Campbell Sat, 07 Jul 2012.

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Sat, 07 Jul 2012 #12
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

john Campbell wrote:
Baffoon and buffoon are both ok,baffoon is a morph.

Which is a misspelling that is not a misspelling because the missppeller (or his equally ignorant ally) has declared it "a morph"?

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #13
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5800 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
When I say K may have been deluded I'm not saying that he was or he wasn't, and I realize the subtlety, the tentativeness of maintaining an open mind, is lost on the likes of a grunting oaf like you.

K, himself, is not important. What he pointed out is. If you can ever get over your fixation with K and start attending to what he pointed out maybe your confusion about what he said and your hatred for the man himself will pass away. Your approach to this whole matter of K and his "teachings" is horribly twisted.

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #14
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5800 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
When I say K may have been deluded I'm not saying that he was or he wasn't, and I realize the subtlety, the tentativeness of maintaining an open mind,

If your above statement was not the theme, the basis of nearly everything you write, you might be somewhat convincing. But it is the core of your repeated opinions regarding K. It seems so obvious that you can't grasp what K pointed out so you feel that you have to destroy it.

You remind me of the jilted lover who can't have the girl but can't stand the thought of anyone else having her either.

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #15
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo is a cancer to this forum and 'baffoon' is a combo of 'buffoon' and 'baboon'.

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #16
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
It seems so obvious that you can't grasp what K pointed out so you feel that you have to destroy it.

:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #17
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dean R. Smith wrote:
lidlo is a cancer to this forum and 'baffoon' is a combo of 'buffoon' and 'baboon'.

Yes..yes..lets not forget Lidio's follower[apprentice] the former undisputed King of K.land..Darth Paul the pompous!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #18
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Your approach to this whole matter of K and his "teachings" is horribly twisted.

Why should it bother or concern you? If you really think you understand, what do you care what anyone says? Of what use is this forum to someone who understands?

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #19
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dean R. Smith wrote:
lidlo is a cancer to this forum and 'baffoon' is a combo of 'buffoon' and 'baboon'.

You're giving Lidlo a lot of power. If there's anything of substance going on in this forum, nothing Lidlo has to say would matter, but you're saying it matters a great deal. Why?

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #20
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
You remind me of the jilted lover who can't have the girl but can't stand the thought of anyone else having her either.

But I did have "the girl"...for almost a decade, in fact, until I realized the girl was imaginary.

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #21
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
Which is a misspelling that is not a misspelling because the missppeller (or his equally ignorant ally) has declared it "a morph

Oh My! Please!MR. Webster would say???? Mais!! I get a kick out of you,sassy????,do you like older,able, men??

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #22
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
You're giving Lidlo a lot of power. If there's anything of substance going on in this forum, nothing Lidlo has to say would matter, but you're saying it matters a great deal. Why?

That's a fantasy. The comment pertained to your desire to destroy the inquiry of others.

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #23
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dean R. Smith wrote:
That's a fantasy. The comment pertained to your desire to destroy the inquiry of others.

Someone says that Lidlo desires "to destroy the inquiry of others" and you accept it as a statement of fact. Do you have any discernment, judgment, perspicacity, or do you just accept/reject what others say?

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #24
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

dhirendra singh wrote:
Is it an intellectual activity to understand psyche?

If one wants to understand, it is intellectual activity, D.

dhirendra singh wrote:
Is it a mechanical activity to see the thought?

Seeing is not a mechanical activity, but the whole thing can become a mechanical habit if done with a goal/purpose in mind.

dhirendra singh wrote:
I am just trying to understand what he meant by 'understanding'.

Intellectual activity has some entertainment value. Enjoy yourself!:)

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #25
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
...until I realized the girl was imaginary.

Is this the reason for your mind being totally closed to K teachings? Is this realization the basis on which you mechanically criticise what others write here?

Aren't you in a wrong place forcibally trying to push your realization down the throats of other posters? When you gave yourself 10 years to find out, why don't you let us do the same at our own pace?

Think over it some more whether your realization gives you the right to call those who want to find out firsthand all sort of names. Or make it clear to all that when you harshly criticise others, you do so for a purpose other than your ego satisfaction.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #26
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Is this the reason for your mind being totally closed to K teachings? Is this realization the basis on which you mechanically criticise what others write here?

Now you're accusing me of what I've been saying about you. You're closed to the possibility that consciousness without memory is a fantasy, and you mechanically spout K-isms instead of revealing any understanding or self-knowledge.

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Aren't you in a wrong place forcibally trying to push your realization down the throats of other posters? When you gave yourself 10 years to find out, why don't you let us do the same at our own pace?

Yes, this is a valid point. Why am I here? Well, as I've said, I'm a recovering K-addict. I've found that recovery involves examining the belief system in all its aspects, confronting it directly, bringing it to the surface, and what better place is for that than amongst the believers?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Think over it some more whether your realization gives you the right to call those who want to find out firsthand all sort of names. Or make it clear to all that when you harshly criticise others, you do so for a purpose other than your ego satisfaction.

It's not about "ego-satisfaction"; it's about being perfectly clear about how the belief system is structured and the conditioning effect it has on the mind. I've learned a lot just listening to the way you all repeat the same old truisms, never questioning or going into anything, never thinking for yourselves. I know how comforting it is to be certain the way you all are, but I think I'd have been better off if someone had challenged me when I was wallowing in that false sense of certainty.

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #27
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
Now you're accusing me of what I've been saying about you. You're closed to the possibility that consciousness without memory is a fantasy, and you mechanically spout K-isms instead of revealing any understanding or self-knowledge.

The questions were about you, lidlo, but you conveniently side stepped. Do you see the significance of doing that?

lidlo lady wrote:
Yes, this is a valid point. Why am I here? Well, as I've said, I'm a recovering K-addict. I've found that recovery involves examining the belief system in all its aspects, confronting it directly, bringing it to the surface, and what better place is for that than amongst the believers?

See, you again ignored the essence of the questions and indulge in justifying your actions. What does it tell you about yourself?

lidlo lady wrote:
It's not about "ego-satisfaction"; it's about being perfectly clear about how the belief system is structured and the conditioning effect it has on the mind. I've learned a lot just listening to the way you all repeat the same old truisms, never questioning or going into anything, never thinking for yourselves.

Lidlo, 'I understand and you don't' is a perfect example of ego in operation.

lidlo lady wrote:
I know how comforting it is to be certain the way you all are, but I think I'd have been better off if someone had challenged me when I was wallowing in that false sense of certainty.

There was also the possibility that you would have wasted a lot of energy and time in useless arguments and name calling...like your aggressive, insulting attitude is causing such wastage here for many.

You are judging us from a fixed position (your so called realization) and that is why you are not reaching to anyone. You don't care enough to touch anybody's heart. We are nothing more than guinea pigs for your study. As the results show, your approach to the issue is immature and counterproductive. The earlier you realize this, better it would be for all.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #28
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

Why do you bother Sudhir?

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #29
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
It's quite possible that K didn't understand so much as believe. People who are taken with K's "teaching" just assume he understood things more deeply than they, but be open to the possibility that he may have been thoroughly deluded.

I swear I am open, I don't believe in K, so please don't worry.

I don't know

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Sun, 08 Jul 2012 #30
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Seeing is not a mechanical activity, but the whole thing can become a mechanical habit if done with a goal/purpose in mind.

Then what is 'seeing'?

I don't know

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