Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Fri, 31 May 2013 #301
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

i thought it was a k site and not something to improve one's writing skills which despite the effort remain a kindergarten stuff.

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Fri, 31 May 2013 #302
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
India 872 posts in this forum Offline

i thought it was a k site and not something to improve one's writing skills which despite the effort remain a kindergarten stuff.

JC>> KINDERGARTEN STUFF

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Fri, 31 May 2013 #303
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
the journey .

pav>>. Isn't it a great pity to have lost them completely in the hands of the money suckers

JC>>

Hi Pavla,
Well the battle is never finished so long as some are able to fight,putting aside
ideals,beliefs,whatever, momentarily,when action begs.By some large chance,
I met an old friend while having a pizza in downtown Toronto, and she,a very
politically active person ,was able to talk me into helping with the artwork,
(posters etc.,) for an upcoming march against a proposed pipeline that the
money suckers plan to run trough this area .She was also part of a protest on
the west coast last year (an attempt to save some big trees etc.),an attempt to keep
things in balance,or at least to prevent them from becoming uncontrollable.
John Muir would be proud of her (lo),and I agree with you that the great efforts
of some very foresightful folk has already preserved a large part of this precious
earth,maybe even k’s place in Cal. :---)).
I just finished reading a bit of history on the sacred wisdom of the American Indians,
everything was sacred to them:
“Knowledge was inherent in all things.The world was a library and its books were
the stones,leaves,grass,brooks and the birds and animals that shared,alike with us,
the storms and blessings of the earth....”Luther Standing Bear.Lakota tribe.(from the book)
One perhaps to be mindful that these people roamed the very area that you are now visiting,
for tens of thousands of years, without disrupting its beauty nor its purpose.
Ok about the lofty Himalayan region back home. My daughter told me of her adventure there and
the beauty of it all.She spent half a year there and explored China,Mongolia,Tibet ant the base camp
of mount Everest which she was planning to climb,plus many other places She did do Kilimanjaro ,
but I think it was at another time(plus another country).
Woops,time to grab the motorbike and shoot downtown,I,m almost late. Not much time for the
Forum lately, just a few minutes here and there to get enlightened by Randy and the ‘gang’ (lo).
Thanks for sharing your adventure Pavi.

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Fri, 31 May 2013 #304
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

thought it was a k site and not something to improve one's writing skills which despite the effort remain a kindergarten stuff.

( post 303 by Ravi )


Define K site and if possible kindly go into what is K for you .

Kindergarten stuff ! - Well to be promoted to the University stuff I do think one needs to go through the very beginning stuff ... You don't agree ?

Well I expected much more interesting , absorbing details of experiences and descriptions coming forth . Pity that doesn't seem to be the case .

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Fri, 31 May 2013 #305
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Thanks for sharing your adventure Pavi


Thanks for that beautiful post and sharing very interesting details of your current day to day life J . C .

I think people of those good old ancient times all over the world , irrespective of belonging to diverse cultures and to different countries shared the same views about revering and worshipping nature . I think when we loose touch with nature the outside one as well as our own inward nature we remain completely disconnected with life .

It's great to hear that you are going to actively participate with your friend's proposed preservation programs , my best wishes for that prospect .

And it's indeed marvelous to know that you have such a great spirited daughter like you who is into so much adventures , traveling and good luck for her too in her plans of scaling the Everest peaks .

Well if an old man of 80 years ( Japanese ) could scale the peaks even after undergoing 4 heart surgeries and could set the record , ( it was there in the recent news ) why not your daughter ?

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Fri, 14 Jun 2013 #306
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

I agree with you that the great efforts
of some very foresightful folk has already preserved a large part of this precious earth,maybe even k’s place in Cal. :---)).

( post 305 by J.C )

K 's place PEPPER TREE RETREAT - OJAI :

The much awaited trip to Ojai took place recently . Kind courtesy my daughter and her hubby :) Well as such I had been getting sort of addicted to Cal's climate : the warm sun shine , clear , sparkling skies , refreshingly soothing sight of green trees , thick vegetation everywhere ( though very well manicured and maintained like everything else in this country , unlike back there in our native land ....

Adding to this Ojai is full of the splendor and grandeur of hills , lush green orange grooves ( which are quite a sight in full bloom .. big ripe oranges almost drooping to the ground from the branches of the trees ) and the tender looking pepper trees with delicate light green leaves swaying in the wind ..... All through the drive one gets to see the Pacific beaches could get plenty of refreshing sea breeze ( much described by K at few places ) .

Spending some time in the library which they say used to be the home of K ( Pine cottage ) had been a very quiet , some what solemn experience . One could feel the place still retains the air of austerity , dignity which used to be the hall mark of K . ( there can be difference of opinions and feelings but to a person visiting for the first time may be the place comes out like this )

Sitting under the uprooted but some what restored pepper tree (Known to be K ' s favorite place .. and with all that history behind .. ) had been a unique experience as well . Not to be missed is the idol of Nandi brought out and kept before the library by some Indian during K 's time only I think, but cant remember the name ) .
The memories which have been read and remembered from the Biographies kept flashing in one's mind such as, K walking across all over those places , paths , his descriptions of the hills ,the valley ,the fresh smell of the orange grooves etc .

Well on the whole it's been a memorable , overwhelming experience .

But here I have to mention about one more important and very interesting occurrence that took place that very day ..... A chance encounter and meeting with Michael Krohnen of The Kitchen Chronicles book . Oh ! He really seemed like a warm , affectionate human being . When asked to spend time he readily agreed and was very forthcoming with answers to few of our queries . Also when asked if he shares the same amount of affection for the man with whom he spent major part of his life ... The answer was a firm affirmative .

And finally the message of the man which stays with him is ' Light unto oneself '

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Mon, 15 Jul 2013 #307
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Came across the following article , which is outstanding in many ways . For once K is being very open , direct and very clearly states the true meaning and essence of Life ,the true purpose behind human existence .. the mystery behind that unquenchable thirst which we all have and what we call Desire ..
Wanted to share with everybody .

Read on ....

DESIRE IS LIFE ITSELF

"If you kill your desire, you are like the withered branch of a lovely tree."

"Now desire, contrary to general belief, is the most precious possession of man. It is the eternal flame of life; it is life itself."
p. 141 (10 April 1930, Los Angeles)

Question: Must there not be a creative urge or power, outside the control of the
individual, which impels him to attain the abundant life?

KRISHNAMURTI: What greater urge do you need than of laughter and
tears? That is why I have been talking about tears and laughter, and not the
explanations of them. If you do not know how to suffer, if you have never cried,
how can you understand, and what greater urge is there than desire? What are
you doing all the time with your desire? Your highest aim is to kill it, but you
cannot kill desire. What you perceive, you desire; but if your perception is small,
your desires are small. If your vision is large, your desires are large. If you are in
chaos, it is not the fault of desire, it is the fault of your perception.
pp. 151-2 (31 May 1930, Ojai)

Now, when you ask yourself what you are seeking, what you really desire to
understand is how life works as a whole, what truth is as a whole. You wish to
find the universal within all the mass of particulars. You want to understand life
in all its various shades of expression and the way in which you, as an individual,
can express that life, and how you can assimilate the happiness which is the fruit
of life. And you will notice that every individual, whether advanced or not,
wishes to understand life in his own particular way, to narrow it down to suit
himself. The philosopher will intellectualize life and have many systems and
explanations of things, and will seek life along that particular line. The poet will
seek the understanding of life in the balance and beauty of words; and so forth.
Everyone, in brief, wants to interpret life according to his own desires, or in
terms of the particular system or religion to which he belongs.
Now, if you wish to understand truth in its totality, you cannot come to it
along any of these particular lines, because life is all inclusive; it lies beyond all
philosophies, beyond the garland of words, beyond ugliness and beauty, beyond
poverty and riches; and yet, because it is beyond these, it is in them all. So, if you
would realize with serious intent, you must grasp at this fullness, this totality,
and must free yourself from all the special fantasies of desire. Life, as an inner
principle, is the completeness of thought and love; and the way to this
completeness is from the personal to the impersonal. There must ever,
therefore, be a conflict between emotion and mind until they become poised in
self-existent happiness in the liberated life. All particular desires — whether
they be of the poet or the philosopher, or of the thoughtless seeker after
pleasure — are, at bottom, the desire for this self-existent, enduring happiness.
That is what your own life — separate as it is, caught in reactions, urged about
by fear — is really seeking. For life, this is its ultimate potentiality, which it is
ever craving to bring into actualization....... *
[Original asterisk footnote:] * Krishnamurti here traced once more the three stages
of desire, as outlined on pages 5 and 13 of this issue.
Any unreal satisfaction of the inner want, which we call desire, is usually
accompanied by a desire to pass on all this unreality to somebody else. I will
explain. You want to give understanding and love in a particular way, which is
your way; and you are hurt when this is not accepted. But such giving is the
giving of illusion, not reality. Also, there is cruelty in it, for it arises from the
desire to dominate, to guide, and control; and it is out of this kind of giving that
we get our steel-bound morality. Both giving and wanting come to the same
thing. Giving is but weakening the individual, and wanting is but relying on
something external. Therefore, neither of these have anything to do with truth.
The point is that, at the root of both wanting and giving, there is a going
outwards away from yourself; and this is what you have to resist. But, if you
do, what is left? When you are not giving or wanting something, what are you?
You are Being, which is the only positive thing in man.
Being is fearless and does not depend on anything outside itself; hence it
does not cast a shadow. It knows no separation and it is immortal. And so, when
you as an individual enter into that pure Being, you become the delight of life’s
expression, because you have been through everything. Such Being is life’s
fulfilment. That is what everyone is seeking — to be himself; not to depend on
external things for his wanting or giving. When you are such Being, you are as
the sunshine in which all things grow and in which there is nothing which is
either evil or good, bad or indifferent.
So do not seek to understand this Being through any one particular
channel. It is far above all these petty creations of illusion. Seek it by casting out
all fear, for when that is done life will show you what it means you to be.
pp. 154-5 (1 June 1930, Ojai)

Now desire, contrary to general belief, is the most precious possession of
man. It is the eternal flame of life; it is life itself. When its nature and functions
are not understood, however, it becomes cruel, tyrannical, bestial, stupid.
Therefore your business is not to kill desire as most spiritual people in the world
are trying to do, but to understand it. If you kill your desire, you are like the
withered branch of a lovely tree. Desire must keep growing and find out its true
meaning through conflict and friction. Only by the continuance of the conflict
can understanding come. This is what most people do not see. As soon as the
conflict comes, and the sorrow born of conflict, they at once seek comfort.
Comfort, in its turn, breeds fear. Fear leads to imitation and the sheltering
behind established tradition. From this come rigid systems of morality, laying
down what is spiritual and what is not spiritual, what is the religious life and
what is not the religious life. It is the fear of life which produces guides, teachers,
gurus, churches, religions. Please, I know.
None of these things are going to satisfy a mind which is really enquiring,
which is really in revolt. As soon as you fear, you have the desire to conform, to
listen to everybody, to become a machine, a type. And all this is but contraction,
and contraction is slow death. It is not in this way that desire can ever fulfil itself.
Growth can only come by the liberation of desire, and liberation here means
freeing it from all fear, and so from the cruelty and exploitation which results
from the quest of comfort, which is the refuge of fear. And this, in its turn, can
only come about through the wearing down of the egotism in desire by contact
with life itself. Only in this way can the reality be reached which is the true
consummation of desire. And so, truly to grow is to learn to love more and
more, to think more and more impersonally, through experience.
Desire, freed from its limitations and from the illusion of fear, becomes joy,
which is but the true poise of reason and love. From being at first personal,
limited, anxious, clinging, it grows by suffering till it becomes all-inclusive, till it
is as the sunset which gives and does not ask anything in return. In the same
way, by continual experience, by choosing, by assimilating and rejecting,
thought becomes more and more impersonal. When both thought and desire
are purified, then we get the perfect balance and harmony between the two,
which is the fulfilment of life and which we speak of as intuition. Such
purified life is the highest reality, and I say that every man and woman must
sooner or later attain to it. It is not reserved for the few, because life is not the
possession of the few. It is that which is struggling for realization in every
human being, and the path to realization is the same in all cases. It is by
struggle, effort, choice and conflict.
Now this highest reality is something which I assert that I have attained. For
me, it is not a theological concept. It is my own life-experience, definite, real,
concrete. I can, therefore, speak of what is necessary for its achievement, and I
say that the first thing is the recognizing exactly what desire must become in
order to fulfil itself, and then to discipline oneself so that at every moment, one
is watching one’s own desires, and guiding them towards that all-inclusiveness of
impersonal love and thought which must be their true consummation. When
you have established the discipline of this constant awareness, this constant
watchfulness upon all that you think and feel and do, then life ceases to be the
tyrannical, tedious, confusing thing that it is for most of us, and becomes but a
series of opportunities for growing towards that perfect fulfilment.
The goal of life is, therefore, not something far off, to be attained only in the
distant future, but it is to be realized moment by moment in that Now which is
all eternity. In such realization every moment controls the future; by what you
are now, you make yourself the master of tomorrow. To understand life and to
live it with understanding you must make yourself free of all the illusions which
desire throws up in its efforts to grow. And this means that you must be free of
fear, for all such illusions are born of fear. Once you have attained to fearlessness,
then you will understand clearly what desire is really seeking, and how it may
attain its end. The man who is seeking happiness, and understands what he is
seeking, must have no divorce between his desires and his actions. Knowing what
desire really wants, he will translate this into daily action. In other words, all his
actions will show forth that poise of reason and of love, which is desire’s true
goal because it is the liberation of life.

pp. 191-2 (22 July 1930, Summer, Ommen)

Krishnamurti Articles & Quotes

Krishnamurti Australia

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Thu, 18 Jul 2013 #308
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Arivalagan S wrote:
This may seem a minor correction on my part were it not for the fact that practically every part of his talk was contradicted by his later teaching. Not one phrase stood, by the end of his life, in the form he then posed it and, I would say, the content changed, not just the diction.

Hi Ariv

First let me say you have summed up that entire passage so well and expressed how you feel about the content of the passage in your beautiful prose .. Well I wonder if my post can be as good a match as yours :)

That above passage indeed is a beauty for me as I did not come across so far in any of the K texts ( of the few I have read of course ) in its direct approach to the whole issue of meaning behind human life and existence .

You are right in a way I could relate to it very easily may be because of my Hindu ( religious ) conditioning .. which is ingrained in me . From our childhood we had been hearing about it all the time on various accounts and occasions . In fact all the so called spiritual teachers of worth any mettle speak of the same .
But the fundamental , outstanding difference between K and them is they only repeat what had been handed over to them since ages .

K on the other hand shows inch by inch , leads from moment moment how it can be realized . But then there is a vast difference between how far one is ready to be engaged .. how much of oneself one is ready to invest .. That is the secret and the key .. Isn't it ? None of the best of the teachers can do anything unless and until one is willingly / unwillingly ( sometimes ) gives oneself to this entire thing .

As you mentioned about Change of attitude in K teaching over a period of time .. I would like to ask ,isn't change an indication of Living , Moving , Progressing movement of life ? ( either for the good or for the bad )
I just recall an idiom I have heard long time back " the only one thing constant in life is change " .. And one more thing at no point of time K proclaimed that he is God himself and so he is unchangeable .. On the other hand we all know he very much lived a normal life like any of us .

Here let me also add how I feel about the teaching . The beauty , depth and the dimension of his prolonged , exhaustive , exclusive work lies in his capacity to engage human conscience ( body , heart and mind ) .. His inimitable , exemplary style in arriving at the positive by completely , thoroughly annihilating the negative .. That according to me is his path breaking , outstanding contribution to human psyche / human conscience .

This post was last updated by pavani rao Thu, 18 Jul 2013.

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Thu, 25 Jul 2013 #309
Thumb_stringio Hope Ropa United States 120 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

pavani rao wrote:
. Creation gifted all of us a mind

And how very fortunate we are to be somewhat aware. People ask me if I think we are alone in the Universe and I reply that, at least at this point in space and time, it is most likely that we ARE alone.

There may very well be other solar systems taking shape with the right mix of amino acids, magnetic field, atmosphere, temperature, sea water, gravity, volcanoes, lightning...and although they may not be able to support life yet, they might do so in the future. Or there may be others that have done so in the past but can do so no longer.

But for there to be another solar system identical in age and composition to our own...not possible.

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Thu, 03 Oct 2013 #310
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Any Thing Under The Sun

Hi B.T

So here we are back in our favorite place ! I read your post 81 in Mike's thread 'Lying Fallow ' that you are remembering about our pop corn - coffee break corner :) ( oh ! I shouldn't talk like this lest out conservative lot may feel offended to see every body loosen up ! )

Well to start with I would like to share few very interesting quotes from Friedrich Nietszie which I came across to write an entry in Mike's thread .

Friedrich Nietzsche

LOVE , LIFE , Because:

We love life, not because we are used to living but because we are used to loving.

Marriage , Love , Makes :
It is not a lack of love, but a lack of friendship that makes unhappy marriages.

Music , Life :
Without music, life would be a mistake.

You , Will , Yourself :
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.

Life , Live , Any :
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how.

Man , Things , Most :
The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything.

You , Only , Your :
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.

Live , Some , Find :
To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.

You , Will See :
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Women , More , Make :
Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.

Power , Time , Truth :
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.

Faith , Anything , Through :
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.

Think , Way , Those :
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

Love , Person , Sometimes :
A pair of powerful spectacles has sometimes sufficed to cure a person in love

You , Look , Looks :
When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.

Wisdom , Love , Hate :
The man of knowledge must be able not only to love his enemies but also to hate his friends

Hope , Man , Because :
Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.

Faith , Know , True :
Faith: not wanting to know what is true.

Art , Great , Beautiful:
The essence of all beautiful art, all great art, is gratitude.

Every , Someone , Impossible :
It is impossible to suffer without making someone pay for it; every complaint already contains revenge.

Learning , Day , Must :
He who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance; one cannot fly into flying.

Truth , Marriage , Converse :
When marrying, ask yourself this question: Do you believe that you will be able to converse well with this person into your old age? Everything else in marriage is transitory.

Friedrich Nietzsche

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/f/fri...

Well all are welcome to pick up their favorite one and can share their views / feelings about the above mentioned quotes .

This post was last updated by pavani rao Thu, 03 Oct 2013.

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Thu, 03 Oct 2013 #311
Thumb_stringio mike christani United States 2234 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Pavani,
I used to own the Essential (or portable?) Nietzsche, and I drew his face once when I first took an art lesson. How much bitterness and humor can exist in one person? Thankfully the wry laughter wins out. Thanks for sharing those!

(ps-I've talked to some people and they find him negative; I think he is realistic. And if you see him as negative, it's your own mirror. Likewise if you see him seeing truthfully into things, that's your mirror too;)

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Thu, 03 Oct 2013 #312
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 388 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

pavani rao wrote:
So here we are back in our favorite place ! I read your post 81 in Mike's thread 'Lying Fallow ' that you are remembering about our pop corn - coffee break corner :) ( oh ! I shouldn't talk like this lest out conservative lot may feel offended to see every body loosen up ! )

Ah Life And Living !! Yes, I remember now. Great place to decompress :-)) . how's life Pav ? grandchildren? children? all in order ?

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Thu, 03 Oct 2013 #313
Thumb_stringio M G Norway 28 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

pavani rao wrote:

You , Will , Yourself :
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.

I think this is an 'individual and lonely' quote not overwhelmed by the rest. This one belongs to R Kipling.

This post was last updated by M G (account deleted) Thu, 03 Oct 2013.

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Thu, 03 Oct 2013 #314
Thumb_stringio anish leh United States 474 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.

Friedrich Nietzsche

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/the_individual_...

This post was last updated by anish leh (account deleted) Thu, 03 Oct 2013.

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Thu, 03 Oct 2013 #315
Thumb_stringio anish leh United States 474 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ari About the quote it was said "This one belongs to R Kipling.". I quoted what was read on a website and included the link. :)

This post was last updated by anish leh (account deleted) Thu, 03 Oct 2013.

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Thu, 03 Oct 2013 #316
Thumb_stringio mike christani United States 2234 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Arivalagan S wrote:
Do you find Nietzsche bitter, MIke. He suffered terribly and was in much pain, but I do not find him either bitter or cynical.

Just wanted to say, yes, 'suffering' is a better adjective. He found a "Why".

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Thu, 03 Oct 2013 #317
Thumb_stringio mike christani United States 2234 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

pavani rao wrote:
When
you have established the discipline of this constant awareness, this constant
watchfulness upon all that you think and feel and do, then life ceases to be the
tyrannical, tedious, confusing thing that it is for most of us, and becomes but a
series of opportunities for growing towards that perfect fulfilment.

Pavani- I somewhat skimmed that talk, but this caught my eye. Ironic that it's from the 30's but it's fresher than some of his later words.

This post was last updated by mike christani (account deleted) Thu, 03 Oct 2013.

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Thu, 03 Oct 2013 #318
Thumb_stringio mike christani United States 2234 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

This may seem like an odd question, but is anyone else daunted or a little afraid of the idea of transformation?

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Fri, 04 Oct 2013 #319
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Mike Wrote : Pavani- I somewhat skimmed that talk, but this caught my eye. Ironic that it's from the 30's but it's fresher than some of his later words.

Mike Wrote : This may seem like an odd question, but is anyone else daunted or a little afraid of the idea of transformation?

Hi Mike

Regarding your above two of the posts 324 & 325 I find a bit of contradiction there .
That short piece of K talk you picked up ( kindly mention the number of the post ) if one READS carefully and ABSORB fully ... It says all and everything .

Now coming back to your post 325 ... May I ask a question ? May be you need to ask this question of yourself . ' what is this transformation business ? '

And that too you have mentioned " idea of transformation " ... And not only that you also raised this point " if any one is daunted or afraid ? " ....

can you go into exploring and share with us your views and thought processes of this issue ?

This post was last updated by pavani rao Fri, 04 Oct 2013.

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Fri, 04 Oct 2013 #320
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Arivalagan S wrote:
It made me a most 'difficult' child, a complete Mowgli. I still am.

So Ari, are you identified with yet another form now ? ...

:-)

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Fri, 04 Oct 2013 #321
Thumb_stringio mike christani United States 2234 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jean- when you consider what a shattering thing transformation must be (I need not mention K's 'process'?), the aloness , the energy...it is Not small potatoes I think. Your relationships would change, your ambitions, desires...all of it undergoing a transformation, your relationship with the universe, if I can say that- everything you 'know' altering- Is that not a little frightening?

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Fri, 04 Oct 2013 #322
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

mike christani wrote:
Jean- when you consider what a shattering thing transformation must be (I need not mention K's 'process'?), the aloness , the energy...it is Not small potatoes I think. Your relationships would change, your ambitions, desires...all of it undergoing a transformation, your relationship with the universe, if I can say that- everything you 'know' altering- Is that not a little frightening?

Why make an idea, an image, of 'transformation' at all ? ... some persons make an image of 'God' and then are frightened too by their own creation ... so why build images at all ? ...

What do you mean by 'transformation' exactly ? ... the common usual sense means 'to change form' ... but the etymological sense means 'to go beyond form' ...

??

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Fri, 04 Oct 2013 #323
Thumb_stringio mike christani United States 2234 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

I was just wondering if anyone felt that way about it. It must be something tremendous. Personally, I do find the concept a little daunting, and I know I used the word 'concept', and that may be one of the blocks, that one forms ideas about it.

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Fri, 04 Oct 2013 #324
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

mike christani wrote:
It must be something tremendous. Personally, I do find the concept a little daunting, and I know I used the word 'concept', and that may be one of the blocks, that one forms ideas about it.

What is it that 'must be something tremendous' ? ... something you know nothing about ? ... like God must be 'something tremendous', no ?

The one thing really tremendous is the fact that you are alive ... and it happens here and now ... this is tremendous, no ? ... and this at least you can experience yourself directly, without even going to what others say about it ...

Why speak about unknown concepts at all ? ... why project images ? ... why not stick to 'what is' ? ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Fri, 04 Oct 2013 #325
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Hi B . T

Well grand child and daughters ... Every body and every thing is in order so far with Almighty's grace . My old man and me also are pulling along well :) In the sense when we are not arguing , shouting at each other over some issue or the other we very promptly retire to our favorite spaces ... Mine being our all time comfy zone Kinfo and of course my hubby has lot of other occupations to keep him busy and occupied ( so glad for that : - ) )

In this regard I found few of the above mentioned quotes of Nietzsche very apt and and in that above list there are quite a few of my favorites , let me share them again .

1 . When marrying, ask yourself this question: Do you believe that you will be able to converse well with this person into your old age? Everything else in marriage is transitory.

( Though I didn't ask that question during my marriage time , me being so naive and young :) but nevertheless we are able yo do that well now :)

2 . It is not a lack of love, but a lack of friendship that makes unhappy marriages.

3 . We love life, not because we are used to living but because we are used to loving.

4 . He who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance; one cannot fly into flying.

( The first two quotes are about the marriage sounded very true and the last two quotes I liked them the most . )

This post was last updated by pavani rao Fri, 04 Oct 2013.

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Fri, 04 Oct 2013 #326
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Arivalagan S wrote:
You can't prove the existence of a state 'beyond form' with a misread dictionary.

No need to 'prove' ... you are already that ... here and now ... just you don't know it Ari ...

And a fact remains a fact even if you don't know it ...

:-)

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Fri, 04 Oct 2013 #327
Thumb_stringio anish leh United States 474 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jean Gatti wrote:

Arivalagan S wrote:
It made me a most 'difficult' child, a complete Mowgli. I still am.

So Ari, are you identified with yet another form now ? ...

'Form' was what you thought to ask about what Ari said.

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