Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #61
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

pavani rao wrote:
I feel Eve's post 47 & 51 have some substance in them

Yep, that Eve, she's something, ain't she!

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #62
Thumb_stringio Paul D Brazil 647 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy Ji wrote:
It could be said/seen that this is all 'ego', couldn't it, Paul? I think people like the idea/ideal handed down by K of 'thinking together'/collectively.

Hi Katy,

Is talking about oneself necessarily ego-enhancing? That's one question. Is everything posted here of the ego? That's another. Is there a fear of enhancing the ego? That's a third. Is any such fear the main cause of people NOT writing about their everyday experience? That's a fourth.

As I consider these questions the first question comes back to me, what is this 'ego' that is being talked of? How is the word being used in each question? How is whatever it stands for being conceptualised? And, is it being condemned?

j

Head on the ground - feet in the clouds

This post was last updated by Paul D (account deleted) Fri, 11 Jan 2013.

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #63
Thumb_stringio Paul D Brazil 647 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Totally exhausted today after clearing the yard of four ton of builders rubble yesterday in the winter drizzle. We worked eight hours flat out removing what the builders had left after they redid the drain. Suffered hyperthermia in the evening and still shivered all night. Physical labor can be an uplifting experience, but uplifting 160 25Kilo bags of wet builders rubble into a dumper certainly isn't.

The task put my body to its limit and tested my psychological endurance. I could see many reactions arising that were not helpful and had to be very alive to my own mind so my spirits kept me going. It was a good job and good to finish it in one day, if insane. I would not have liked to face it again today!

Head on the ground - feet in the clouds

This post was last updated by Paul D (account deleted) Fri, 11 Jan 2013.

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #64
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
Is she religious? i

No I don't call her religious in the conventional sense  . She doesn't do her puja ( daily worship ) and chant mantras and all that . But she is well read of all our Epics and the Gita , and one interesting thing is she keeps this dairy where in she had noted down all the good words from age old Rishis and saints , in free time  keeps  reading them . I guess that reading gives her some moral strength and courage to pull on in life . One final observation I can make of hers is she is fond of herself and is at peace with herself , which in turn makes her feel the same way about every body ... 

Well you may be wondering why I'm doing this case study of some of my old nondescript  aunt ... You know T often looking at her I wonder after all this reading K , and endless discussions and all that,  where is it leading to ?

 K so often talks of collective goodness of people and very fondly mentions about all those illiterate gardeners , villagers who may look very oppressed but they have this goodness and kindness in them . By accepting their plight and the way of life as it is they simply lead their lives and die anonymously  may be contributing a small bit in the functioning and the running of this world of ours ... 

This post was last updated by pavani rao Fri, 11 Jan 2013.

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #65
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Hi j

Well that is a very impressive job done,what shall I say except giving a shabashi and saying keep it up young man ! :)

And I do remember your long walking stretches for miles together ... You know j coming to this forum if not for any thing else does going to serve in inspiring others to go ahead with physical exercises and exertioins :)

This post was last updated by pavani rao Fri, 11 Jan 2013.

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #66
Thumb_stringio Katy Ji United Kingdom 574 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Julia Alejandra Rojas wrote:
Is talking about oneself necessarily ego-enhancing?

Generally, it probably is, Paul. Talking together about 'commonalities 'with reference to 'the self' as a phenomenom/construct might be less individualistic, mightn't it? Is that which is individualistic, always ego-enhancing and/or 'separatist'? Are we trying to be a 'virtual commune', lol?:)

Julia Alejandra Rojas wrote:
Is there a fear of enhancing the ego?

It seems this way. Why do you think people might fear this?

Julia Alejandra Rojas wrote:
Is any such fear the main cause of people NOT writing about their everyday experience?

I think that, this being an internet forum, people are probably less inclined to 'divulge' personal info/stuff. Also, people are (mostly) trying to be serious-minded and find more lighthearted or 'ordinary chat' to not be so relevant. I don't know the 'why' of this. (Just an observation).

Julia Alejandra Rojas wrote:
And, is it being condemned?

I don't usually think of people in terms of it (ego). I learned that 'the ego' is a necessary part of protection for the individual/the self.
Saying that a person is 'egotistical' or that he or she has a 'big ego' is only ever said in a derogatory way. Is this our conditioning talking ? Why do people in the West react so strongly to egoistic/egotistical or 'boastful' people generally?

This post was last updated by Katy Ji (account deleted) Fri, 11 Jan 2013.

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #67
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
K so often talks of collective goodness of people

'k' starts with the individual.... the self.... the known and ends with its death.

What you describe that 'k' talked about is, dillagi.....mohabbt ki rahon mein dilagi bhul jaani pade gi.

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #68
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
dillagi.....mohabbt ki rahon mein dilagi bhul jaani pade gi.

Hum  tho kab  ke bhool chuke  par aisa lagta hai aap bhool nahi parahe hai :) 
( excuse my madrasi Hindi , even after 6 years of  spending in Lucknow couldn't much grasp Lukhnavi  andaaj ) 

But I feel you could do better than that ,  I mean coming out with your writing stuff ... Well may be we can hear some nice integrated stuff of Indian spirituality and  K ? ( anything like your musings or experiences and your travel trips to holy places to start with ... ? 

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #69
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

  ... for God's sake, look at the moon and not the finger that points.

Stop acting like a shool girl.

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #70
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy Ji wrote:
Saying that a person is 'egotistical' or that he or she has a 'big ego' is only ever said in a derogatory way. Is this our conditioning talking ? Why do people in the West react so strongly to egoistic/egotistical or 'boastful' people generally?

Hi Katy,first sentence,"only ever said"? Is it not possible that a statement of fact can be made(an observation)with out judgment? #2..the answer is in your question:) #3...In general terms..most likely due to the apparent lack of sensitivity..tendency towards complete self absorption.. a certain aura of pompous posturing...or as the old saying goes.."No one likes a know it all"LOL:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #71
Thumb_stringio Paul D Brazil 647 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ravi Seth wrote:
... for God's sake, look at the moon and not the finger that points.

Stop acting like a shool girl.

What moon? People who stare at the moon too long become . . . .what's that word that starts with luna?

And . . . what's a "shool girl?"

And maybe one should contemplate one's own finger, which is at least real, if it is pointing, and wonder why it points. There's nothing in that sky but dreaming, babe. Moon went bye-bye back in 85.

Oh, now I remember . . . it ends in 'tic.'

Head on the ground - feet in the clouds

This post was last updated by Paul D (account deleted) Fri, 11 Jan 2013.

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #72
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 388 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

pavani rao wrote:
You know T often looking at her I wonder after all this reading K , and endless discussions and all that, where is it leading to ?

maybe it is not supposed to lead anywhere?

about leading, you know i was thinking the other day if we let ourselves - mostly through inattention - be pulled this way and that by daily life, then there's no end to the pulling and pushing; maybe this observing (observation, sensitiveness, utter attention) that K proposed helps one let go of some of those things; and once you start letting go, the movement (incessantly going this way and that, back and forth, wanting the stars and the moon, all the movement that creates inner conflict you know?), all that slows down a bit. It may slow down considerably. Or it may slow down altogether, like with K. Apparently that is also when time stops.

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #73
Thumb_stringio Katy Ji United Kingdom 574 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

RICK LEIN wrote:
"No one likes a know it all"LOL:)

:) For sure, Rick. I thought my questions were perhaps a little 'daft' or stating the obvious. Sorry!

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #74
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy Ji wrote:
:) For sure, Rick. I thought my questions were perhaps a little 'daft' or stating the obvious. Sorry!

No no Katy..not you personally..this thing we call ego..it's general way..and perhaps "why" it gets responded to the way it does?:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #75
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

To me..ego is that point around which conditioning clings?:)

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #76
Thumb_stringio Katy Ji United Kingdom 574 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

RICK LEIN wrote:
No no Katy..not you personally..this thing we call ego..it's general way..and perhaps "why" it gets responded to the way it does?:)

For sure, Rick. No one likes a 'know all' or to have the world explained to them by someone else do they? It is much better to find things out for oneself isn't it?

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #77
Thumb_stringio Katy Ji United Kingdom 574 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

RICK LEIN wrote:
To me..ego is that point around which conditioning clings?:)

Yes :)

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #78
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy Ji wrote:
No one likes a 'know all' or to have the world explained to them by someone else do they? It is much better to find things out for oneself isn't it?

No Katy they don't,yes Katy that is "why" it is called self knowledge!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #79
Thumb_stringio Katy Ji United Kingdom 574 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

RICK LEIN wrote:
No Katy they don't,yes Katy that is "why" it is called self knowledge!:)

:)

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #80
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy Ji wrote:
Is this our conditioning talking ?

The following partial quote from todays quote may shed some light on the why of it?...Spontaneity can come only when the intellect is unguarded, when it is not protecting itself, when it is no longer afraid for itself; and this can happen only from within. That is, the spontaneous must be the new, the unknown, the incalculable, the creative, that which must be expressed, loved, in which the will as the process of intellect, controlling, directing, has no part.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #81
Thumb_stringio Katy Ji United Kingdom 574 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Thanks, Rick. Excellent quote!
When a person is being spontaneous he or she is also not 'self-conscious' and so, yes, there is a freedom in that way of being isn't there?

It would seem that here as soon as I/you/we have composed a sentence to type any spontaneity has gone out of the window!:)

How much is what 'I' write decided/directed by my idea of 'you'?

This post was last updated by Katy Ji (account deleted) Fri, 11 Jan 2013.

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #82
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy Ji wrote:
How much is what 'I' write decided/directed by my idea of 'you'?

Idea..possibly something to look into all on it's own?:)

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Fri, 11 Jan 2013 #83
Thumb_stringio Katy Ji United Kingdom 574 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

RICK LEIN wrote:
Idea..possibly something to look into all on it's own?:)

Yes, ideas or images from where do these arrive? (No answer expected....just wondering)

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Sat, 12 Jan 2013 #84
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy Ji wrote:
(No answer expected....just wondering)

Well that works out perfect..cause I don't have any answers!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sat, 12 Jan 2013 #85
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Julia Alejandra Rojas wrote:
And . . . what's a "shool girl?"

We are talking in Hinglish.

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Sat, 12 Jan 2013 #86
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ravi Seth wrote:
We are talking in Hinglish.

:)

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Sat, 12 Jan 2013 #87
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

RICK LEIN wrote:
That is, the spontaneous must be the new, the unknown, the incalculable, the creative, that which must be expressed, loved, in which the will as the process of intellect, controlling, directing, has no part.

Hi Rick

I completely agree with Katy in saying that is an excellent quote . 

When we are discussing of self knowledge aren't we reminded of what K says as ' Self Knowledge  is like  an endless river ' ...

 In  other words there is  no way of knowing by oneself as to what one exactly is ... Isn't it always directly or indirectly being gathered by what people are saying about oneself either of one's close people or people with whom one interacts most of the time .... also how and what one perceives very well of  oneself ..... 
 
And to continue further in that journey of self knowledge  apart from few innate qualities with which we are born with .... Everything about us is in a state of flux... In the sense as long as we are perceiving , learning we are changing ... 

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Sat, 12 Jan 2013 #88
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Katy Ji wrote:
Yes, ideas or images from where do these arrive?

From memory.

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Sat, 12 Jan 2013 #89
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
And to continue further in that journey of self knowledge  apart from few innate qualities with which we are born with

The new born is born with no innate qualities but is vulenrable like a blank slate where the thought writes its own thesis.

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Sat, 12 Jan 2013 #90
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Ravi

Just finished reading post 97 of Essential K texts kind courtesy John Raica and thought the last part of the extract is applicable to what you have mentioned in your above post . Go through the entire post , it's very interesting as always ...

This post was last updated by pavani rao Sat, 12 Jan 2013.

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