Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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k, as I see


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Fri, 26 Apr 2013 #1
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

I have no interest in K's mysterious life, his 'world teacher'/ bodhisatva story, his process, these stories incicates that we need something like god's messenger, to accept someone a spiritual teacher or transformed person, as if a person's life and his expressions are not sufficient to show what he is.

For me only important and interesting thing about K is, had he lived his teaching? When some one live what he says then there is something beyond the words, between the lines, which is essence, that is my only interest in K.

For me Pupul and luteans were complete failure, they keep counting mango trees instead of eating mango, and well they were not last ones, counting of mango tree is on...

I don't know

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Fri, 26 Apr 2013 #2
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 388 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
I have no interest in K's mysterious life, his 'world teacher'/ bodhisatva story, his process, these stories incicates that we need something like god's messenger, to accept someone a spiritual teacher or transformed person, as if a person's life and his expressions are not sufficient to show what he is.

you are totally right to a point Dhi, that point being that K was all spirituality.
his work, in particular the notebook, is drenched in it.
one could not ignore it if one wanted.
you can do whatever you want with it, but not ignore it.
yes, self-knowledge, awareness, all that. but there, looming in the horizon there is always something different, much more powerful, entirely of a different nature.
it comes up in each and every talk, it comes up forcefully in "the ending of time", it comes up in every page of his many books. it totally dominates the K's notebook.
Like Paul, you can say it was staged, or like LL you can say he was fooling himself.
but you cannot ignore it-

dhirendra singh wrote:
For me Pupul and luteans were complete failure,

I think M Lutyens did her job. she reports facts and dates, mostly.
P Jayakar, with all due respect, i find to be totally over the top. Almost irrational.

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Fri, 26 Apr 2013 #3
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

dhirendra singh wrote:
I have no interest in K's mysterious life, his 'world teacher'/ bodhisatva story, his process, these stories incicates that we need something like god's messenger, to accept someone a spiritual teacher or transformed person, as if a person's life and his expressions are not sufficient to show what he is.

Hi King Dhi:)

Or maybe just like you we look for entertainment? ;)

dhirendra singh wrote:
For me Pupul and luteans were complete failure, they keep counting mango trees instead of eating mango, and well they were not last ones, counting of mango tree is on...

Maybe that is true, as I remember him saying, K asked them to be there to witness the process since he wanted it to be documented. He may have had a good reason for doing so and I don't think it was to make him look special.

You will never know if K lived his teachings or not because you CAN'T know that. You can only read what other people say about what he did or didn't do and draw conclusions that are only opinions.

I do see it with you that all this stuff keeps us off track, it is pure entertainment/speculation about the past and the danger is inattention and creating a following based on belief in the phenomenon..... It is a distraction for the mind that does not want to attend to the here and now.

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

This post was last updated by Eve G. Sat, 27 Apr 2013.

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #4
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
When some one live what he says then there is something

But do you see the problem with this "test"? It pre-supposes you have understood what K says, in order to compare it to how he may or may not have lived his life.

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #5
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

randal patrick wrote:
But do you see the problem with this "test"? It pre-supposes you have understood what K says, in order to compare it to how he may or may not have lived his life.

That was a thought that wasn't posted, because the subject itself is not important.

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #6
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Randal: But do you see the problem with this "test"? It pre-supposes you have understood what K says, in order to compare it to how he may or may not have lived his life.

Well, Randal, take an example, K said don't believe, then if you see him in believing in guru, x or god, then obviously he is not living what he said, he rejected past, path etc.and if he follow path, past, make images then he is not living the teaching.

Well if teacher is hypocrite, I have no interest in him.

Though I understand your point, your question, I have not answered that question, because this is very obvious, at least for me, if I actually understand K then either I would be free or I would have rejected K.

But anyway, my point was miracle is not proof of K's rightness, their are millions babas in India and in world, each has many stories of how magical power they had, how they cure diseases, Talking these cheap things about K is trying to put him with them babas.
In medical field they compare a drug with placebo, and if a drug cures 50 peoples placebo also cures 15, and placebos are not enlightened, superpowered.

Well K teaching's one basic thing is, no one can help you including K, so if K was speaking truth, I drop him and if he was a liar, I drop him because why to listen a liar.

I don't know

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #7
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Ewe.

You are right, I don't know if lived fully his teaching, but I have tried to explain my point in above reply to Randal:-)

Thank you for calling me King, theory of reincarnation can make a King to a poor begger, well though in previous birth;)

I don't know

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #8
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Hi B.

Giving importance to process, miracles, healing etc is dishonoring his sixty years efforts, he never said like this, "sirs, look how important the process, the miracles, my divine birth is", he talked about other things, about belief, conditioning, attention etc.

People like to search something other, more powerful behind K, as if by finding that more poweful other they would have direct contact with someone more authentic whom K was probably hiding;).

Any way, I was joking , but I don't understand these all research about something mysterious, powerful thing behind K

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Sat, 27 Apr 2013.

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #9
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
but I don't understand these all research about something mysterious, powerful thing behind K

It is "The self" still searching for something to believe in? Personally I do not care about such issues at all,in point of fact..is appears to me that the whole of he teaching is contained in the simple statement.."watch your mind"!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #10
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Yes, agreed rick:-)

I don't know

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #11
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 388 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
Giving importance to process, miracles, healing etc is dishonoring his sixty years efforts, he never said like this, "sirs, look how important the process, the miracles, my divine birth is", he talked about other things, about belief, conditioning, attention etc.

i understand what you say.
what i mean is, although he distanced himself from all the confusion created around him by the Theosophists, things like the pressure in his head, the transformation of the cells in the brain, the "other", the sacred, creation, the "ground" and all of that were as much an integral part of his work as watching one's thought, right to its last talk in Madras.
And if we are to believe the transcript of that last tape he allegedly recorded while he was dying, then we might also say, right until the day he died.

I wonder if you do not see this?

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #12
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Hi B.

All I say is, process, miracles, healing was not part of his teaching, they are out of context and have no value in teaching, rather they are hindrance in teaching.:-)

I don't know

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #13
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
All I say is, process, miracles, healing was not part of his teaching, they are out of context and have no value in teaching, rather they are hindrance in teaching.:-)

Yes....!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #14
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Dhi,

The quality of the teaching is such that it is very difficult not to see that there is truth there, and I am not talking about belief.

His presence was such that you didn't need miracles or research it was obvious to anyone who had 'eyes'. And you are right all this investigation into the phenomenon is not important.

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #15
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
Well if teacher is hypocrite, I have no interest in him.

What you (and all) have interest in, is comforting slogans and a teacher who conforms to your ideal/image. All this other stuff being talked about here, is escape from that fact.

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #16
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eve G. wrote:
and I am not talking about belief.

But you are talking about belief/image.

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #17
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
and have no value in teaching, rather they are hindrance in teaching.

But just a reminder, you have no relationship to the message/teaching, except as image/belief/distortion.

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #18
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
he rejected past, path etc.and if he follow path, past, make images then he is not living the teaching.

But again, have you understood what it means "he rejected past"? Of course not, so how will you know he is living something you don't understand?

This whole thread screams out "I know". You (and other assorted autoritarians here) are relying on the authority of your thinking/belief to make these assertions.

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #19
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

randal patrick wrote:
This whole thread screams out "I know". You (and other assorted autoritarians here) are relying on the authority of your thinking/belief to make these assertions.

Spoken by the authority invested in biff protein, green peace and santa maria ;)

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

This post was last updated by Eve G. Sun, 28 Apr 2013.

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Sat, 27 Apr 2013 #20
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

randal patrick wrote:
You (and other assorted autoritarians here) are relying on the authority of your thinking/belief to make these assertions.

Says Randy thought belief!:)LOL!

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sun, 28 Apr 2013 #21
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

RICK LEIN wrote:
Says Randy thought belief!:)LOL!

Instead of commenting/taunting who said it, try to understand what was said.

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Sun, 28 Apr 2013 #22
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eve G. wrote:
Spoken by the authority

Why are you and rick so infatuated with the person speaking, rather than the fact or fantasy of what was said?

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Sun, 28 Apr 2013 #23
Thumb_2564 Satya Prakash India 528 posts in this forum Offline

randal patrick wrote:
But just a reminder, you have no relationship to the message/teaching, except as image/belief/distortion.

Would 'Living the teaching' be always based on image/concept/idea, Randal?

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Sun, 28 Apr 2013 #24
Thumb_2564 Satya Prakash India 528 posts in this forum Offline

randal patrick wrote:
This whole thread screams out "I know". You (and other assorted autoritarians here) are relying on the authority of your thinking/belief to make these assertions.

These are very harsh words bound to irritate, even hurt, many. What is your basis (authority) for posting them?

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Sun, 28 Apr 2013 #25
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 749 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dhi:'When some one live what he says then there is something'

Randal:But do you see the problem with this "test"? It pre-supposes you have understood what K says, in order to compare it to how he may or may not have lived his life.

Mina: Bravo Randal! This is great! I would put it like this: Are you different from the measure/judgement with which the other is measured, in this case, 'if he/anyone lives what they say'. -There is no other way than to live it yourself to find out if someone else is truly living it. That is the wonder, there is no escpaping the fact of the observer being the observed. That is also the end of all comparison and distance and suspicion concerning others...'others' are no longer separate from you. There is no one else there whose authenticity or lack of it you could test in any way, since it is YOU and ONLY YOU who is either authentic or not, only that matters ultimately.

Love
m

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Sun, 28 Apr 2013 #26
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 388 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

in this sunny, fresh, Sunday morning, under the clear sky, ,the wind blowing through the trees right in front of me, and with as clear a brain as a good night's sleep may provide, i wonder: why do we complicate things so much?

it's like i'm in Egypt, i am a turist and want to visit the pyramids. i've got a map in my hand but do not know which way to go. an Egyptian guy is standing nearby and watching me; he happens to understand i want to visit the pyramids. he points me which way to go. end of story.

do i question his intentions, his way of life, his ulterior motives, his past, his future ... or do i tentatively turn my head in the direction he is pointing?

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Sun, 28 Apr 2013 #27
Thumb_2564 Satya Prakash India 528 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
why do we complicate things so much?

We do so because of the illusion that such efforts make for clearer and simpler understanding of the issue. Moreover, our problem solving expert mind knows/prefers only this way of functioning.

B Teulada wrote:
do i question his intentions, his way of life, his ulterior motives, his past, his future ... or do i tentatively turn my head in the direction he is pointing?

The right direction for a head bursting with knowledge is inward, but knowledge comes in the way of seeing clearly to any significant depth in that direction.

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Sun, 28 Apr 2013 #28
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 749 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Teulada:'it's like i'm in Egypt, i am a turist and want to visit the pyramids. i've got a map in my hand but do not know which way to go. an Egyptian guy is standing nearby and watching me; he happens to understand i want to visit the pyramids. he points me which way to go. end of story.

do i question his intentions, his way of life, his ulterior motives, his past, his future ... or do i tentatively turn my head in the direction he is pointing?

Mina: Beautiful! Everything but simple action itself is a complication. Thought cannot but be interested in ultimately unessential things, it has no place in Essence.

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Sun, 28 Apr 2013 #29
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

randal patrick wrote:
Why are you and rick so infatuated with the person speaking, rather than the fact or fantasy of what was said?

Posts #16,18,21..and just to clarify my brother...the fantasy "IS" what is being addressed with some humor..which apparently escapes you due to ..well..the Fantasy that you are somehow different!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sun, 28 Apr 2013 #30
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5668 posts in this forum Offline

randal patrick wrote:
You (and other assorted autoritarians here) are relying on the authority of your thinking/belief to make these assertions.

But what is the source of authority at the root of your criticisms of others if it isn't the belief that you have been "transformed" as you have stated in recent posts. That you alone know what is true and what is not. The very assertion that you have been transformed is ludicrous. If there is still a "you" what is the transformation?

You accuse others of doing precisely what you are doing. Which is asserting a baseless authority as expressed in your thinking and statements. And yet you don't see the irony in this?

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sun, 28 Apr 2013.

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