Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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What are dulling factors?


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Fri, 07 Aug 2015 #31
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Pavil Davidov wrote:
listening to one another, can be legitimate and useful when done intelligently.

Yes, K said that often. Why doesn't anyone do it actually?

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Fri, 07 Aug 2015 #32
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1471 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Pavil Davidov wrote:

listening to one another, can be legitimate and useful when done intelligently.

R:Yes, K said that often. Why doesn't anyone do it actually?

Perhaps because the reaction to another's words is so immediate and that what he called the 'art of listening' is not a part of our 'conditioning'?

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Fri, 07 Aug 2015 #33
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3176 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
:Yes, K said that often. Why doesn't anyone do it actually?

Perhaps because the reaction to another's words is so immediate

Truer words have never been spoken. What's sad it that K. was the only 'teacher' to point out this fact...that we don't really listen at all...and the consequences of this is the suffering and total disorder we find everywhere in so called society...the world.

Let it Be

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Fri, 07 Aug 2015 #34
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1471 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
What's sad it that K. was the only 'teacher' to point out this fact...that we don't really listen at all..

It's interesting that if one 'listens' through the 'ego' or the past, the reaction to what is said will come from there. And in the case of flattery or insult, the former will be accepted and the latter rejected. But supposedly, listening with 'intelligence' (without the filter of the 'I',) they would not create those emotional reactions. The words would be 'weighed' as to their merit.

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Fri, 07 Aug 2015 #35
Thumb_2820 Aseem Kumar India 2033 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
It's interesting that if one 'listens' through the 'ego' or the past, the reaction to what is said will come from there. And in the case of flattery or insult, the former will be accepted and the latter rejected.

Insult hurts while flattery prepares one for inevitable hurt in future, perhaps more deep.

Dan McDermott wrote:
But supposedly, listening with 'intelligence' (without the filter of the 'I',) they would not create those emotional reactions. The words would be 'weighed' as to their merit.

What does 'supposedly' mean/imply here?

The mind can deceive itself and fabricate anything it wishes

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Fri, 07 Aug 2015 #36
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1471 posts in this forum Offline

Aseem Kumar wrote:
Dan McDermott wrote:

But supposedly, listening with 'intelligence' (without the filter of the 'I',) they would not create those emotional reactions. The words would be 'weighed' as to their merit.

A: What does 'supposedly' mean/imply here?

That I have not mastered the 'art of listening'?

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Fri, 07 Aug 2015 #37
Thumb_2820 Aseem Kumar India 2033 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
A: What does 'supposedly' mean/imply here?

That I have not mastered the 'art of listening'?

Then will you please explain your reason for the statement you made related to 'intelligence and listening'?

In what manner/s "ego" can/will react to such a statement stored in one's memory as 'special knowledge'?

The mind can deceive itself and fabricate anything it wishes

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Fri, 07 Aug 2015 #38
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1471 posts in this forum Offline

Aseem Kumar wrote:
Then will you please explain your reason for the statement you made related to 'intelligence and listening'?

There are two types of 'listening': one is where I say something to you and you react to the words. The second one has been described by K. as the 'art of listening' where the words are heard and 'digested' and the response comes from intelligence and not from my personal associations,images, stored in memory. So the second type is very rare because it implies the presence of 'intelligence',and the absence of an egoic reaction. And this, I think, 'makes sense' even if it is beyond one's present state though one can experiment with it.

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Sat, 08 Aug 2015 #39
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3176 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
And this, I think, 'makes sense' even if it is beyond one's present state though one can experiment with it.

Can you explain how one might do this experimenting? By making this special listening a goal or ideal? I don't think you mean practicing it, do you? But doesn't experimenting amount to a form of practicing? If this is an ideal or a belief(because K. said it's real) than it's not a present reality, right? What IS the present reality...what actually IS? Mostly it's the distorted listening/observing(to another or ourself)....which is reacting according to like and dislike...conditioning. How do we observe the reacting ...'what is'...without further reacting(rejection, condemnation, justification, etc)?

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sat, 08 Aug 2015.

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Sat, 08 Aug 2015 #40
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dan McDermott wrote:
Perhaps because the reaction to another's words is so immediate and that what he called the 'art of listening' is not a part of our 'conditioning'?

But here it is in black and white. You said it out loud for all to hear. Why, after all these centuries, can we not find a way to see/hear without the distortion/bias/interference of our conditioning? Are we too stupid?

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Sat, 08 Aug 2015 #41
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Why, after all these centuries, can we not find a way to see/hear without the distortion/bias/interference of our conditioning? Are we too stupid?

Well mainly because, we are going to die...so why to take burden of such heavy philosophy...or truth whatever...though no problem if it happens by chance...as it happened to you or K or...

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Sat, 08 Aug 2015.

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Sat, 08 Aug 2015 #42
Thumb_3203 Anonymous . Reunion 71 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
But here it is in black and white. You said it out loud for all to hear. Why, after all these centuries, can we not find a way to see/hear without the distortion/bias/interference of our conditioning? Are we too stupid?

Such assumptions are conditioning by themselves. You can't be attentive if you want to be attentive, then there is no attention at all, there is that desire. You afraid to be stupid, because you want to be smart. You want to build an empire of knowledge, and you want to guard yourself with that knowledge, that what most of us wants. It seems that man always wants to be someone, it is not enough for him just to be.

You see, most of us are stuck in a complex theories, we are absorbed by all kind of knowledge, there are very few minds which are simple, which are not too serious and yet not ignorant, only such a mind has depth of penetration.

I have no intentions to hurt anyone, and what I'm saying is not directed to anyone.

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Sat, 08 Aug 2015 #43
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:

randall merryman wrote:

Why, after all these centuries, can we not find a way to see/hear without the distortion/bias/interference of our conditioning? Are we too stupid?

Well mainly because, we are going to die...so why to take burden of such heavy philosophy...or truth whatever...though no problem if it happens by chance...as it happened to you or K or...

Hello dhirendra, long time no see....good to meet you ..

If "it" happens by chance then we all should play the lotto too, in case..

I don't see how we could have a direct influence on a presence of a mythic "it", as for me "it" is not a subject in our reach at all as an analyser, if there is a "it" at all.

to seek for "it" may in fact indicate that my life is a mess and empty so sort of painfully dull and boring by all means as it is....

When this feeling is there, feeling being a fact then, as the analyser stupidly thinks that me is one thing and the mess of my life is another one...it is caught until death into this trap, which is dark, painful ,meaningless etc etc etc....end of the sad story...nevertheless not knowing that deeply then I put my runners on and try hard to analytically find out something better, like....world domination !!!wow !!!! that is a great goal is no it..those nuts are practically ready now to commit something ..perhaps irreparable....possibly..yet such immediate possible danger does not produce any change at all in our global conduct...

but no word even closer to truth describing, if there is such truth of course, does not sufficiently really help I think, at some stage much more like a real X doing needs to take place...

well good luck then :-))

cheers..

how are you keeping those days..??

Dan ...........

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Sat, 08 Aug 2015 #44
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
...so why to take burden of such heavy philosophy...or truth whatever...

So what will we do then my friend? Wait until the next severe psychological disturbance, before we once again seek out 'burden of such heavy philosophy"? ;)

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Sat, 08 Aug 2015 #45
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Anonymous . wrote:
I have no intentions to hurt anyone, and what I'm saying is not directed to anyone.

Whew....thanks for saying that because you had my ego a little worried for a second there. ;)

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Sat, 08 Aug 2015 #46
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

paul daniel wrote:
If "it" happens by chance then we all should play the lotto too, in case..

It seems most invest, more or less, in the spiritual lotto, so to speak......gotta at least buy a ticket, eh? ;)

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Sat, 08 Aug 2015 #47
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Anonymous . wrote:
Such assumptions

I won't argue the point but it seems quite obvious.

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Sat, 08 Aug 2015 #48
Thumb_3203 Anonymous . Reunion 71 posts in this forum Offline

dhirendra singh wrote:
Well mainly because, we are going to die...so why to take burden of such heavy philosophy...or truth whatever...though no problem if it happens by chance...as it happened to you or K or...

This is a frivolity, and it leads to an isolation, to dullness and irresponsibility. This is how majority of us lives, we want to have easy and irresponsible lifestyle, we are so indifferent to ourselves, to others, to what happens around us. But, in fact, life itself is a great labor, there is no life without labor, not just any labor, but labor which has sense, which is not destructive.

We all are going to die, but are you okay in a world, or better to say in a society in which we created and in which we live? Is everything is okay, that you can just don't do anything, sit down, relax and enjoy this show, and wait until you die?

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Sat, 08 Aug 2015 #49
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

randall merryman wrote:

paul daniel wrote:

If "it" happens by chance then we all should play the lotto too, in case..

It seems most invest, more or less, in the spiritual lotto, so to speak......gotta at least buy a ticket, eh? ;)

Of course why not?

In that case, there seem to be the vital need to try that lotto really hard and widely then too see any validity in any quest but for that a signal of wrongness for me is vitally needed. For me sorrow ,pain, suffering,discontentment etc are proving again and again to be real such "landmark"s which say: this is wrong..then I can try again and again different options yes..it may lead nowhere which is where I actually already am..

but If I have no such "landmark" which are giving ,for me , real non personal advices about what is wrong, then I am surely lost only in pure analysing yes/no and again why not if one wishes to do so...

there is no problem with that as such as we apparently have been left alone with such job to go into or never....when a start in a different direction brought,according to my experience, by correctly living the sorrow of a so called life which simply is my state of mind, when I live it and do nothing else wit it, nor expect anything,which is huge for the analyser but it can do it as I know that , then a little helper may assist us yes...

The sorrow of life then have played its catalyst job..as for me it is a symptom and a little helper too....

But i understand dhirendra when he says:

dhirendra singh wrote:
why to take burden of such heavy philosophy...or truth whatever...though no problem if it happens by chance...as it happened to you or K or...

Because the analytical search is really some heavy burden..there is a handful winners every 2500 years....by remaining analytical I am then going to increase the pain, in my case such doing was both unbearable and right....then out of such stupid self inflicted misery ,not aware that it is self inflicted from scratch of course,something always unexpected may be there but cleanly i cannot count on that at all in fact..unexpected like some of the deep goodness of life...

so what is left ? for me one thing , there is sorrow just live it...

now this does not appeal in a sort of Hollywood-like world....and here well I do not care if it does or not....that is what we call freedom of choice....freedom is an evil word for me ;-))

Dan ...........

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Sun, 09 Aug 2015 #50
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
So what will we do then my friend? Wait until the next severe psychological disturbance, before we once again seek out 'burden of such heavy philosophy"? ;)

Well, I am trying to understand life from early childhood, but I can't fake enlightenment...like fake orgasm...do law of average work? like among 7 million sperms a single sperm get chance to meet ovum and develop..

I don't know

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Sun, 09 Aug 2015 #51
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

paul daniel wrote:
Hello dhirendra, long time no see....good to meet you ..

Hello Dan...nice to meet you too :)

I get your point that analytic mind has nothing to do with "it"...

And nice to read you :)

I don't know

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Sun, 09 Aug 2015 #52
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
And nice to read you :)

:-)..............................

Dan ...........

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