Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Pleasure is the Prison of Mankind


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Sun, 20 Mar 2016 #1
Thumb_005 Nicholas Okumu Canada 70 posts in this forum Offline

In one of his dialogues with Dr. Anderson, JK said that "...pleasure and fear are two sides of the same coin.." JK also said that joy, which is entirely different from pleasure, cannot be invited. The moment you realize it, its gone!

So, if we cannot cultivate joy, does this explain why human beings are now caught up in pleasure? Pleasure has become an important aspect of our lives. When one is sorrowful, one longs for pleasure.

But pleasure cannot overcome the great sorrows of man. The sorrows of plain, loss, emptiness, loneliness, ignorance, etc. Pleasure has therefore become man's prison.

...the problems of duality...

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Mon, 21 Mar 2016 #2
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1465 posts in this forum Offline

Nicholas Okumu wrote:
When one is sorrowful, one longs for pleasure.

Yes N,

I think that we know this about ourselves. But with a rememberance of K.s ideas, we can pause there a bit with the sorrow and we can see that trying to "overlay" it with its opposite, non-sorrow or pleasure, that we set up a conflict, a resistance in ourselves and continue the process of 'sorrow'.

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Mon, 21 Mar 2016 #3
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Nicholas Okumu wrote:
Pleasure is the Prison of Mankind

Well I don't see pleasure so much as a prison ... identities and attachments are the prison (including the beliefs resulting from identities like religions, ideologies, traditions etc) ... pleasure is rather seen as an escape, a self medication, kind of addiction in fact (don't we look for pleasure in addictions ?) ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 21 Mar 2016 #4
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
pleasure is rather seen as an escape ...

Total Freedom | Paris, France. 7th May 1950.

"With most of us, the difficulty is that we are unaware of our escapes. We are so conditioned, so accustomed to our escapes, that we take them as realities. But if we will look more deeply into our selves, we will see how extraordinarily lonely, how extraordinarily empty we are under the superficial covering of our escapes. Being aware of that emptiness, we are constantly covering it up with various activities, whether artistic, social, religious or political. But emptiness can never finally be covered: it must be understood. To understand it, we must be aware of these escapes; and when we understand the escapes, then we shall be able to face our emptiness. Then we shall see that the emptiness is not different from ourselves, that the observer is the observed. In that experience, in that integration of the thinker and the thought, this loneliness, this anguish, disappears."

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 21 Mar 2016 #5
Thumb_farside0411 m christani United States 262 posts in this forum Offline

"Reactions take root and our life is the ground in which roots have grown. To cut all the roots, one by one, is a psychological absurdity. It cannot be done. Only the fact, loneliness, must be seen and then all other things fade away."

K's Notebook

mike

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