Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Why don't people interested in K.'s teaching visit and post in all three forums?


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Tue, 22 Aug 2017 #1
Thumb_de4 Dan McDermott United States 1213 posts in this forum Offline

There may be animosities that I'm not aware of but I miss that others who only post on one or two forums don't express themselves on all three. Did something happen in the past? It seems a loss to me to not have the input of interested people to whatever (or wherever ) something about K.'s work is going on. I know Jack has criticized John R. for his 'additions' to K.'s word and I think even John has agreed but for him it is valuable and he knows the original texts are available easily and to all. But I miss the input of others on all these forums, so why have the 'boundary lines' been drawn? Are they necessary anymore?

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Tue, 22 Aug 2017 #2
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 209 posts in this forum Offline

I joined John Raica's Experimenters Corner many years ago. I posted a lot there. Then he started deleting. Apparently he feels that he can have only eight or nine threads and no more. At some point he deletes old ones to make room for new ones. I don't really agree with that kind of policy. I think someone should be able to search back long ago for something in the forum if they wish to. But if it is deleted, they cannot. So I told him to remove me from his forum. He blocked me for a while but didn't remove me. Now I'm unblocked and still a member because I suppose he cannot remove me? Anyway, I don't participate there. And that's why.

Clive Elwell's A Quiet Space seems like a very nice forum. I occasionally read posts there but since I had a problem with Experimenters Corner, I decided not to try to join. I'll just post here in the General Discussion where any forum member can post.

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Tue, 22 Aug 2017 #3
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4894 posts in this forum Online

The problem seems to be, Idiot, that you don't post so much as you troll. You twist and stretch and theorize a subject to death just, I suppose, to hear yourself talk, so to speak. There are other ways to handle boredom why not look into some of them? You might come upon something beneficial to you or to someone else who knows?

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Tue, 22 Aug 2017 #4
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4894 posts in this forum Online

Dan McDermott wrote:
I know Jack has criticized John R. for his 'additions'

John R seems to think that the key to understanding K is to copy his, K's, words ad nauseum and they will somehow sink in. His recent thread on K's "paradoxes" seems to affirm that even after years of copying K's words he still doesn't understand what K was trying to point out.

It appears that Clive and John R are quite comfortable acting as "masters", authorities and censors and the chief posters on their respective forums. They maintain a tight control over their domains.

I prefer Dev's approach by far. He let's the forum find it's own level. He does delete accounts but I have yet to see him do it where it wasn't long overdue.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 22 Aug 2017.

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Tue, 22 Aug 2017 #5
Thumb_stringio Brian Smith United Kingdom 212 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

When I was last on here, and what put me off being here was the Jack and Jean show. I remember you - I'm talking to you Jack - saying that you wanted Jean off the forum because he was ruining it. You wanted him gone so everyone could talk reasonably. Jean's gone now so Jack so why you still being so aggressive? And you are very aggressive Jack. For instance I can remember you sending me a very offensive private message even though I'd had no interaction with you. I asked you what I'd said and you told me that I must have pissed you off. Look at yourself Jack.

This post was last updated by Brian Smith (account deleted) Tue, 22 Aug 2017.

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Tue, 22 Aug 2017 #6
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4894 posts in this forum Online

Gee thanks Brian for the instant personal analysis. Whatever would I do without you? Aggressive? Not really. I just don't take much nonsense from people. Are you afraid of people who are aggressive Brian?

It just gets so tiresome posting something that K said that one appreciates to have it cluttered with the refuse that Idiot cluttered it with. And Brian since I haven't interacted with you in I don't know when, if ever, why are you holding all these feelings of hatred and bitterness toward someone you don't know? You might want to talk to someone about that.

And Brian I deeply apologize if I scared you off before by interacting with Jean. Life can be so very, very frightening can't it Brian? This is an adult site. You do realize that don't you? Calm down. Everything is OK now.

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Tue, 22 Aug 2017 #7
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 169 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Aggressive? Not really.

But you are intentionally antagonistic rude and personal, on the forum and in unsolicited private messaging. Then you have the balls to falsely project this attitude/behavior onto others. Quite pathetic really, for one who claims to have understood the things K talked about.

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Tue, 22 Aug 2017 #8
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 169 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
This is an adult site.

You gonna do a strip-tease, Jack? Few if any psychologically mature posts.

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Tue, 22 Aug 2017 #9
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 169 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Life can be so very, very frightening can't it Brian?

So you play the "boogieman" in order to toughen us all up Jack?

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Tue, 22 Aug 2017 #10
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 169 posts in this forum Offline

Brian Smith wrote:
I can remember you sending me a very offensive private message

He sent me an uninvited rude and personal PM also. I asked what was the state of mind that would behave in this manner. That really set him off.

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Thu, 24 Aug 2017 #11
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1038 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
But I miss the input of others on all these forums, so why have the 'boundary lines' been drawn? Are they necessary anymore?

Hi Dan,

To me it's more like the continuation of breaking up the whole, all with builded arguments from personal preferences in contradiction with the teaching as a whole.

But the same thing can be said about every reply on the forum !

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Sat, 26 Aug 2017 #12
Thumb_77 Ken D United States 14 posts in this forum Offline

I posted in Raica's Corner, and the Kinfonet Administrative team sent their best regards and banned me for 10 years for posting a photo of Jackie Gleason. Maybe Trump can issue me a pardon.

This post was last updated by Ken D Sat, 26 Aug 2017.

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Sat, 26 Aug 2017 #13
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 169 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
for posting a photo of Jackie Gleason....

Was he flipping a middle finger?

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Sat, 26 Aug 2017 #14
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3058 posts in this forum Online

richard head wrote:
Was he flipping a middle finger?

He was rolling his eyes...a pretty appropriate reaction to the post Ken was commenting on. But I think Ken was warned against posting this type of humorous photo by John R....and he ignored the warnings. John makes the rules...it's his forum. I'm happy that Ken can still post here....he posts some funny stuff. I think even K would have appreciated some of it.

Let it Be

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Sat, 26 Aug 2017 #15
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 169 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
John makes the rules...it's his forum.

This seems to be the inappropriate feature of this scenario.

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Sun, 27 Aug 2017 #16
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 209 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
I posted in Raica's Corner, and the Kinfonet Administrative team sent their best regards and banned me for 10 years for posting a photo of Jackie Gleason.

That is most unfortunate because obviously K's and Jackie Gleason's teachings are in harmony:

K: "Be aware of what is."

JG: "How sweet it is!"

K: (from Mind Without Measure Talks in New Delhi, 1st Public Talk, 30th October, 1982 `The Root Cause of Confusion')

"What is observation? Now, when you observe the full moon, do you observe it, do you see the beauty of that light, see the extraordinary quality of that light, or do you say it is a full moon and do something else?

JG: "One of these days, Alice, to the moon!"

This post was last updated by idiot ? Sun, 27 Aug 2017.

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Sun, 27 Aug 2017 #17
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 209 posts in this forum Offline

[Ken posts a photo of K clothed as a medium with a crystal ball.]

K: "What is your future? What is the future of each one of you? And if I am your parent, I would be very, very concerned about it."
(First Dialogue with Students at Rishi Valley, December 1983)

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Tue, 29 Aug 2017 #18
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 169 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
"How sweet it is!"

I was too young to remember "the honeymooners", but I do remember the variety show. Classic talent ol' Jackie was. Art was cool too though.

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Tue, 29 Aug 2017 #19
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3058 posts in this forum Online

richard head wrote:
Art was cool too though.

Alice (Audrey Meadows) was a gem too. I was very young when my family watched the Honeymooners but I remember my parents going crazy over it. I liked Norton(Art Carny), though, even as a very young kid. Audrey Meadows' sister was married to the great comedian Steve Allen. Now HE was a talent! O.K., I better stop before I get banned myself.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Tue, 29 Aug 2017.

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Wed, 30 Aug 2017 #20
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4894 posts in this forum Online

Ken's repeated childish cartoon-like graphics are all about him and not about the teachings and not at all as witty as he probably thinks they are. They are distracting and minimize the seriousness of what K had to say.

I know that many of you, especially most Americans, have a deep need to be entertained by everything you do otherwise your attention wavers. Either discuss what K pointed out, your understanding of this, or go somewhere else for your entertainment.

Ken, they should have thrown you off Kinfonet a long time ago. It seems to me that if the Kinfonet Administration had thrown you off you wouldn't be on any of the forums. It appears that you have just been thrown off by John R.

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Wed, 30 Aug 2017 #21
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3058 posts in this forum Online

Jack Pine wrote:
I know that many of you, especially most Americans, have a deep need to be entertained by everything you do

Not everything....most of us have spent many hours with the 'teachings' in one form or another...some of us, many years. K liked his mystery novels and action movies for entertainment. I think he liked some TV shows on occasion...Kojak, I think. Of course this is a site dedicated to the teachings...however there seems to be little interest in that lately on this particular forum. I don't know what happened. Ever since Jean was banned it's gotten pretty quiet...at least in regards to discussing K. I have no problems with Ken's humor as long as the threads aren't dominated by it...which they're not. Oh well, whether he stays or goes isn't up to me.

Let it Be

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Wed, 30 Aug 2017 #22
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4894 posts in this forum Online

Two things Tom. One; look what Ken's posts have done to this thread. I don't see that they have furthered the original subject of the thread. Instead the thread has become about him. Two; no one said to not have entertainment in your life. What I did say was not to make what K pointed out into an entertainment which is what many of Ken's computer graphics tend to do. His posts go a long way in diverting a serious discussion into cheap entertainment on many occasions.

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Wed, 30 Aug 2017 #23
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3058 posts in this forum Online

Ken D wrote:
Yes, it's a terrible thing to have to live in fear.

Its a matter of consideration, not fear. It's hardly a terrible thing to be considerate of other's wishes is it? Do you talk loudly at the cinema? But maybe your entertainment is more important to you than John Raica's wish that you cease and desist...so you got banned. Of well, it's not really my problem. If I thought your photos were a problem I'd say so.

Let it Be

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Wed, 30 Aug 2017 #24
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 209 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti certainly had the ability to laugh and to tell some jokes. It might help some people here if they were able to laugh a little more.

Some of Ken's posts make me laugh out loud and I appreciate them.

Ken and I have been posting here at kinfonet on and off for decades, since long before most people who post here now started. From way back, Ken impressed me with the depth of his knowledge about K's life and teachings. He's read a lot of K stuff. If now he prefers a lighter approach, I don't mind at all.

I far prefer that to the personal attacks favored by so many here.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Wed, 30 Aug 2017.

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Wed, 30 Aug 2017 #25
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 223 posts in this forum Online

Wim Opdam wrote:
Hi Dan,

To me it's more like the continuation of breaking up the whole, all with builded arguments from personal preferences in contradiction with the teaching as a whole.

But the same thing can be said about every reply on the forum !

Of course it is Wim. Very few have the seriousness to go into that. Though that could shaken them lives. But they now seems so bored that they have come to prefer jokes, entertainments, Ken's cartoon; they now find funny turning K. into ridicule.

idiot ? wrote:
Krishnamurti certainly had the ability to laugh and to tell some jokes. It might help some people here if they were able to laugh a little more.

Great. Now we can take confort in conformity. K. did it, then it is o.k.

idiot ? wrote:
Some of Ken's posts make me laugh out loud and I appreciate them.

So you have now a new friend. Good for you.

idiot ? wrote:
Ken and I have been posting here at kinfonet on and off for decades, since long before most people who post here now started.

So what ? Is that mean that you now have both a special value ?

idiot ? wrote:
From way back, Ken impressed me with the depth of his knowledge about K's life and teachings. He's read a lot of K stuff. If now he prefers a lighter approach, I don't mind at all.

Ken have never discuss anything on this forum. And if he've read a lot of K. stuff, as you say, it doesn't give him any credit. Just try him, and you'll see.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Thu, 31 Aug 2017.

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Thu, 31 Aug 2017 #26
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 223 posts in this forum Online

Dan McDermott wrote:
I know Jack has criticized John R. for his 'additions' to K.'s word and I think even John has agreed but for him it is valuable and he knows the original texts are available easily and to all.

I would not make a judgment on Raica forum. But I find it unbearable and illigible. It is like someone interupting all the time another one who is speaking. You know , like those who finish your sentences when you speak.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Thu, 31 Aug 2017.

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Thu, 31 Aug 2017 #27
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 169 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
His posts go a long way in diverting a serious discussion into cheap entertainment on many occasions

It is just a fact Jack, that many (most?) minds turn the things K talked about, into the same type of "entertainment" (many of us must expand the possibilities when defining a word like this) as other philosophical/religious/metaphysical pursuits. "Krishnamurtism" is "what is" after all, right?

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Thu, 31 Aug 2017 #28
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 169 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Instead the thread has become about him.

And you have transformed it into "him"-vs-you.

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Thu, 31 Aug 2017 #29
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 223 posts in this forum Online

richard head wrote:
"Krishnamurtism" is "what is" after all, right?

It is what is in certain circonstances, but not necessarely in another. If what is is the veneration of the person K. , then it is Krishnamurtism. If it is the good old conformity, beleives, second hand things or blindness acceptance, then it is again Krishnamurtism. But what is call the teaching, if ever it is true, if ever it is the truth, then it is no more about the man, but about the truth. Then let's go after truth-ism. Though, any ism is a calamity.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Thu, 31 Aug 2017.

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Thu, 31 Aug 2017 #30
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 169 posts in this forum Offline

Rich Nolet wrote:
It is what is in certain circonstances, but not necessarely in another.

I am not at all sure why you are suggesting this. The mind operates consistently in the same manner, regardless of circumstance, for a long time. It is this universal commonality (as opposed to individual memories) that K points toward over and over again as being the situation of interest in one's journey of self discovery.

This post was last updated by richard head Thu, 31 Aug 2017.

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