Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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QOTD Dec. 3


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Sun, 03 Dec 2017 #1
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Who is Krishnamurti talking about here? Any of the many "serious" posters at Kinfonet wish to comment?

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Mon, 04 Dec 2017 #2
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1046 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Richard, presuming you are referring to this one.?

Krishnamurti Quote of the Day

Commentaries on Living Series I | Chapter 22 'The Self'

Why is it that we crave to be recognized, to be made much of, to be encouraged? Why is it that we are such snobs? Why is it that we cling to our exclusiveness of name, position, acquisition? Is anonymity degrading, and to be unknown despicable? Why do we pursue the famous, the popular? Why is it that we are not content to be ourselves? Are we frightened and ashamed of what we are, that name, position and acquisition become so all-important? It is curious how strong is the desire to be recognized, to be applauded. In the excitement of a battle, one does incredible things for which one is honoured; one becomes a hero for killing a fellow man.

Through privilege, cleverness, or capacity and efficiency, one arrives somewhere near the top - though the top is never the top, for there is always more and more in the intoxication of success. The country or the business is yourself; on you depend the issues, you are the power. Organized religion offers position, prestige and honour; there too you are somebody, apart and important. Or again you become the disciple of a teacher, of a guru or Master, or you co-operate with them in their work. You are still important, you represent them, you share their responsibility, you have and others receive. Though in their name, you are still the means. You may put on a loincloth or the monk's robe, but it is you who are making the gesture, it is you who are renouncing.

Timetables are different on some parts of the world !

But he is obviously talking to all the selves on the world,
including his own.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Mon, 04 Dec 2017.

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Mon, 04 Dec 2017 #3
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 589 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
But he is obviously talking to all the selves on the world,

Hi Wim. Yes, he's talking about you and me and everybody else. We all crave a bit of recognition now and then as it makes us feel good about ourselves I suppose. Can we go beyond this and shelf the self as it were?

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Mon, 04 Dec 2017 #4
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Hi Richard, presuming you are referring to this one.?

No Wim, I was actually referring to the one that talked about repeating truth that one might have heard where it ceases to be truth at that point.

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Tue, 05 Dec 2017 #5
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 589 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Richard. Is this what you were referring to?

Question: I would like to help you by doing propaganda for your teachings. Can you advise the best way?

Krishnamurti: To be a propagandist is to be a liar. (Laughter.) Don't laugh, Sirs. Because, propaganda is merely repetition, and repetition of a truth is a lie. When you repeat what you consider to be the truth, then it ceases to be the truth. Say, for instance, you repeat the truth concerning man's relationship to property, the truth which you have not discovered for yourself; what value has it? Repetition has no value; it merely dulls the mind, and you can only repeat a lie. You cannot repeat truth, because truth is never constant. Truth is a state of experiencing, and what you can repeat is a static state; therefore it is not the truth.

The Collected Works, Vol. V Bombay 10th Public Talk 14th March, 1948

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Tue, 05 Dec 2017 #6
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1046 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Yes, he's talking about you and me and everybody else.
We all crave a bit of recognition now and then as it makes us feel good about ourselves I suppose. Can we go beyond this and shelf the self as it were?

Is the seeing transforming our doing ??
One doesn't know if he or anyone else has gone beyond this self ....
do we ??
If one knew...... one iS back in the old track !!

richard head wrote:
No Wim, I was actually referring to the one that talked about repeating truth that one might have heard where it ceases to be truth at that point.

Richard,

if I by repetition describe the beauty of a sunrise or sunset,
is that a repetition of the truth ?
(it's coming up and going down every day again and again) !!
if I by repetition describe the madness of all wars, is that a repetition of the truth ?

If you are not able to see the difference between a repetition and the truth ...
is that a lie?

If that is a truth, I regret your state of being ....your lack of awareness

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Tue, 05 Dec 2017.

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Tue, 05 Dec 2017 #7
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 589 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Is the seeing transforming our doing ??
One doesn't know if he or anyone else has gone beyond this self ....
do we ??
If one knew...... one iS back in the old track !!

Hi Wim. I think one was probably never actually off the old track. All of us crave recognition. I think that's the starting point. It's just an interesting thing to sit back and ponder why we live this way.

Krishnamurti asked "Why is it that we are not content to be ourselves? Are we frightened and ashamed of what we are, that name, position and acquisition become so all-important?"

I think these are good questions.

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Tue, 05 Dec 2017 #8
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1046 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
I think one was probably never actually off the old track.
All of us crave recognition. I think that's the starting point.

Hi Sean,

It may so, it may be not so..... does one really seeing that ...all of use that way ?? One only can investigate ones own doing, observing if the self is becoming active or not...and accept the fact that it does mostly and sometimes not ....and even than it can be active on a hidden way...
That's meditation in action, isn't it ??

Sean Hen wrote:
Krishnamurti asked "Why is it that we are not content to be ourselves? Are we frightened and ashamed of what we are, that name, position and acquisition become so all-important?"

I think these are good questions.

Seems to me also, but only at ones self and never, never .... about others and or ideas, that would be acquisition of knowledge about this other person........,
or about a theory how it should be done and/or seen.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Thu, 07 Dec 2017 #9
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
is that a repetition of the truth ?

But Wim, on a Krishnamurti discussion forum, will we concern ourselves with the beauty/truth of a sunset? The quote of K's specifically addresses the repetition of something we may have heard K say (or anyone we believe to have spiritual authority). Like many of my traditionally religious friends do, he (K) is pointing out that simply to have the word/truth on our/my lips is propagating "truth". In other words we are part of the problem while believing we are the solution (to the human psychological situation).

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Thu, 07 Dec 2017 #10
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
I regret your state of being ....your lack of awareness

Mine personally? You are suggesting that your "state of being" and "awareness" are superior? Or are you simply suggesting you know more cool stuff about the human psychological experience?

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Thu, 07 Dec 2017 #11
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
If you are not able to see the difference between a repetition and the truth ...

All those who represent Truth actually and not simply repeating authority, please raise your hand.

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