Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Is there any survival after death?


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Wed, 29 Aug 2018 #1
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 678 posts in this forum Offline

In this 16 minute video, Krishnamurti talks about this question - Is there any survival after death? You can watch the video here.

Any comments on the content of this video?

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Thu, 30 Aug 2018 #2
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 678 posts in this forum Offline

Minute 10:41 of the video:

“You see sirs, there’s one factor that you miss in all this – love knows no death. Compassion knows no death. It’s only a person that doesn’t love or has no compassion ... is afraid of death.”

That is really an extraordinary statement. Instinctively, it seems to be true but how can Krishnamurti or anyone else actually know this?

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Thu, 30 Aug 2018 #3
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Interesting. It is clear there is no continuation of 'me'. Because our consciousness is common to all mankind & therefore separate individuality is only an illusion.

However he says the common consciousness goes on. How do you see that point?

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Fri, 31 Aug 2018 #4
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 678 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Interesting. It is clear there is no continuation of 'me'. Because our consciousness is common to all mankind & therefore separate individuality is only an illusion.

Hello Jayaraj, thanks for replying to my post. I'm not really sure that this is clear at all. At 2:22 minutes in the video, Krishnamurti says the following:

"First of all, do you perceive, do you actually realise that your consciousness is the consciousness of mankind? Realise that? Is that a fact to you? As factual as a ... somebody puts a pin into your arm ... you feel the pain of it. Is it as actual? Not the pain, but the fact.”

How clearly do we actually see this?

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
However he says the common consciousness goes on. How do you see that point?

I don't know. I suppose he means that the pattern continues. People are born and they continue to have the common consciousness. What do you think?

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Sat, 01 Sep 2018 #5
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
I suppose he means that the pattern continues. People are born and they continue to have the common consciousness. What do you think?

Hello Sean- Sorry. Somehow I missed this thread.

Well it is the common consciousness K says continues. What is the common part? It appears to be our angers, fears, ambitions, greed etc.

So does he mean that quality continues? Or is it the energy of that consciousness caught in a certain pattern(that would be still that quality)continues?

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Sun, 02 Sep 2018 #6
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 678 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Well it is the common consciousness K says continues. What is the common part? It appears to be our angers, fears, ambitions, greed etc.

As far as I can see, the common part is the common brain and common consciousness of the whole of mankind and is contained in thought. This completely influences how we see the world.

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
So does he mean that quality continues? Or is it the energy of that consciousness caught in a certain pattern(that would be still that quality)continues?

Yes, I think he means that this quality continues. What do you think Jayaraj?

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Mon, 03 Sep 2018 #7
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Yes, I think he means that this quality continues. What do you think Jayaraj?

Well at least once K said there are two recordings going on.

Then he said(read in an Indian bulletin)that rebirth is the continuation of the consciousness without the self identity.

We see a tree. Brain records that. That is one recording..The object it records is actually, physically there.Then I say you are good or bad. There is no outside object that you are good or bad. There brain uses the encounters I've had with you & using this information an image is made that you are good, bad. So the brain didn't have that. But brain projects that with information it has. Where is this image, recording taking place? It cannot be in the brain because an outside actual object is not there.

So is the 2nd recording taking place in space? Like SMS messages can go through space? We make images one after the other. So after one it gets pushed aside?

What is the purpose of the space around the Brain? Full purpose may not be known to us.Is part of it to facilitate imagination?

Some people here hypnotize & see what was before death. I tried this on my own.Once I started getting that out, I immediately saw a dead body. Remembered the name. He had a crack below the right eye. I checked. It's a person who got shot from behind & the bullet got wedged below the right eye!
That night I saw a face of a woman.Remembered a name(this is in dream).Checked again. It's that man's wife's name.

But those were just pictures. Like watching an album. I couldn't say that was me.

So to me K is absolutely right when he said consciousness continues without the self identity.

Sorry to talk about my experiences Sean but I don't know how to throw light on this topic.

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Tue, 04 Sep 2018 #8
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Smoking is supposedly pleasurable to those who indulge in it.But in actual fact it is very damaging.The mouth pulls on it,it burns in front & the smoke is sent down to lungs.

Is image making something similar.It is supposedly for security which is pleasure but actually very damaging causing conflict.

As information is drawn from the brain does image making take place in front in space causing to give off some vibrations which is pushed round the space surrounding the brain down to the heart?

K said brain & heart are psychosomatically connected.K also said once 'You must keep the tape always clean'.

The great Buddha is supposed to have said the consciousness is like a leach attached to the heart!

So is there a tape in all this? In image building?

Difficulty is there are phenomena taking place outside the range of our vision. So it's very difficult to know clearly.

I hope I have not said something silly.

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Tue, 04 Sep 2018 #9
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1159 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
I hope I have not said something silly.

The topic: "Is there any survival after death?" In itself seems silly.

Is there a living before death or only a continuation from the past.?

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Tue, 04 Sep 2018.

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Tue, 04 Sep 2018 #10
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Wim, we were trying to understand some statements K made. The video is available in post 1.

However you raise an interesting question.

Yes, we always meet the present with the past.

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Tue, 04 Sep 2018 #11
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Sean, another point to look at regarding this question is that K said consciousness is one. Then what? What is continuation of the consciousness then?

In 'Questioning K'(if I recollect correctly, in the book)) K says consciousness is one. Then goes on & says that does not mean we are some amorphous beings.

So what does that mean? Are we one like one apple or like a tree full of hundreds of apples with each apple representing a human being but connected by branches?

Personally I think it may be the latter. Each person has some energy caught in a pattern & it may be in a common river. Point is there is no 'me' in that.The 'me is when we say we are unique from other patterned energy clusters.

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Thu, 06 Sep 2018 #12
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Well it came to a stop! I think it's difficult to comment on this topic. I am also just quoting.

In 'Wholeness of Life's K says the image at the moment of death continues. Then he says it manifests itself on others.

According to Buddhist scriptures the leach moves on to another body when the organism dies.

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Sat, 08 Sep 2018 #13
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Actually Buddhist scriptures don't say a leach leaves at the time of death. To be precise it says the consciousness leaves like a leach at the time of death.

First as the body is dying one end comes off & like a leach reaches out & grabs a new place. So at this point it says consciousness of that person is in two places.This they call 'antharabawaya '.Then the other end leaves as the body passes away & the way a leach reaches a new spot the consciousness reaches a new body- both the ends.

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Sat, 08 Sep 2018 #14
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Well, friends I am batting it alone here! Wazza matter?

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Sat, 08 Sep 2018 #15
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

From many different statements K made at different points there is considerable reason to think that this might be the case.

Somewhere in Collected Works K says that there are several entities in one person & that only one entity is dominant. So he was saying how is there individuality in that case.

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Sat, 08 Sep 2018 #16
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 419 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Well, friends I am batting it alone here!

We talk to ourselves because we don't know if the other is a robot or a person or a mechanical being who goes around a limited circle all the time . I think that one needs to talk to one self more frequently..

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Sat, 08 Sep 2018 #17
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 678 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Well, friends I am batting it alone here! Wazza matter?

Hello Jayaraj! Sorry, I have been away for a few days to a small island in the Mediterranean Sea. I'll read all your messages and reply soon.

This post was last updated by Sean Hen Sat, 08 Sep 2018.

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Sat, 08 Sep 2018 #18
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Hello Sean,

That's ok really. I didn't really mean that.

These are what K had said & what the Buddha supposedly said on the topic I've put here. It's actually hard to comment on their statements.

Thanks.

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Sat, 08 Sep 2018 #19
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Hello Sean,

That's ok really. I didn't really mean that.

These are what K had said & what the Buddha supposedly said on the topic I've put here. It's actually hard to comment on their statements.

Thanks.

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Sat, 08 Sep 2018 #20
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Hello Sean,

That's ok really. I didn't really mean that.

These are what K had said & what the Buddha supposedly said on the topic I've put here. It's actually hard to comment on their statements.

Thanks.

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Sun, 09 Sep 2018 #21
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 678 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
The topic: "Is there any survival after death?" In itself seems silly.

Wim, you seem to have proved Krishnamurti right!

The video at the beginning of this thread - 0:56 seconds - 1:37 minutes.

Krishnamurti:

"Is there any survival after death? ...... That's the real question, isn't it sir? ..... No? ...... Do you want to talk about death? ...... Shall we go into it? ..... Are you interested in it? ..... Probably not, are you?".

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Sun, 09 Sep 2018 #22
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1159 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Krishnamurti:

"Is there any survival after death? ...... That's the real question, isn't it sir? ..... No? ...... Do you want to talk about death? ...... Shall we go into it? ..... Are you interested in it? ..... Probably not, are you?".

I now rembered I once read this line, did he not ended this with:

Thank God ??

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Sun, 09 Sep 2018 #23
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 678 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
I now rembered I once read this line, did he not ended this with:

Thank God ??

No. Instead he spent about 14 minutes discussing this. It was fascinating. I assume you haven't watched the video Wim.

This post was last updated by Sean Hen Sun, 09 Sep 2018.

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Sun, 09 Sep 2018 #24
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 419 posts in this forum Offline

The material in the video is too deep for us because we don't love. We are reactionaries who don't feel responsible for the whole of mankind. That is why we argue endlessly.

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Sun, 09 Sep 2018 #25
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1159 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
I assume you haven't watched the video Wim.

That's a right assumption, I'll soon have the time to do it, the memory appeared to be from "Truth and Actuality" as follows:

Chapter 6 : DIALOGUE I
“Nobody can put you psychologically into prison. You are already there!”

Krishnamurti: This is in the nature of a dialogue between two friends, talking over their problems, who are concerned not only with their own personal affairs, but also with what is happening in the world. Being serious, these two friends have the urge to transform themselves and see what they can do about the world and all the misery and confusion that is going on. So could we this morning spend some time together having a friendly conversation, not trying to be clever, nor opposing one opinion against another opinion or belief, and together examine earnestly and deeply some of the problems that we have? In this, communication becomes rather important; and any one question is not only personal but universal. So if that is understood, then what shall we talk over together this morning?

Questioner: The compilation of your biography has caused much confusion and quite a lot of questions. I have boiled them down to a few. May I at least hand them over to you?

Krishnamurti: Do you want to discuss the biography written by Mary Lutyens? Do you want to go into that?

Questioner: No.

Krishnamurti: Thank God! (laughter).

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Sun, 09 Sep 2018.

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Sun, 09 Sep 2018 #26
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 419 posts in this forum Offline

K says that my consciousness is the same as every other person's consciousness. I want to be as simple as I can be with regard to the question of consciousness. What is my consciousness? Is it my experience? Is it my desires? What is consciousnesses? Should I look up what k said, Or should I start fresh without any references?

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Mon, 10 Sep 2018 #27
Thumb_2018-01-20-120616 Daniel Paul. Ireland 97 posts in this forum Offline

Hello Sean

is there any survival after death ?

This morning I came across this , the original interview by Carlos Suarès
was in french

Si nous sommes sans peur, vous et moi, nous pouvons poser correctement la question de la mort. Nous ne nous demanderons pas ce qui arrive « après », mais nous explorerons la mort en tant que fait.

If we are without fear, you and me, we can correctly ask questions about death , We would not be asking what take place "after", but we will explore death as a fact...

immediately it made me think about the question you brought here...and now as I did not before I am going to watch this video...when I 'll get a chance..

cheers

Dan ...........

This post was last updated by Daniel Paul. Mon, 10 Sep 2018.

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Mon, 10 Sep 2018 #28
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1159 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:

Sean Hen wrote:

I assume you haven't watched the video Wim.

I'll soon have the time to do it

I've done it and yes it is very interesting
especially the remark he made about ' what happens after '.

So one can see that
asking for consciousness and what to do with it
is the indication that there is no awareness.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Mon, 10 Sep 2018.

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Mon, 10 Sep 2018 #29
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 678 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
So one can see that
asking for consciousness and what to do with it
is the indication that there is no awareness.

Hi Wim. I don't really understand what you mean here. You'd also need to indicate where on the video (the minute) where he made the mark you referred to. Thanks.

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Mon, 10 Sep 2018 #30
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 678 posts in this forum Offline

Daniel Paul. wrote:
immediately it made me think about the question you brought here...and now as I did not before I am going to watch this video...when I 'll get a chance..

Hi Daniel. Thanks for taking the time to comment here. I didn't actually ask the question "Is there any survival after death?" myself. I posted a video of K responding to this question and thought what he had to say was very interesting. Please let me know what you thought about the video.

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