Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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The Future Of Humanity


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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #181
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 1228 posts in this forum Offline

One can ask: What is a person?

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #182
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 1228 posts in this forum Offline

A human body and its memory?

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #183
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1186 posts in this forum Offline

K:So if you see that, if you really recognize with your whole being that belief is conditioning thought, then what happens? You become aware that your thought is conditioned, aware your thought is caught up, tethered to a belief. In the flame of awareness you will recognize the foolishness, and therefore you are beginning to free the mind from the conditioning, and hence you begin to think completely, fully. Please experiment with this, and you will see that life is not a process of continual battle, battle against standards as opposed to what you want to do. There is then neither what you want to do, nor the standard, but right action, without personal identification.

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #184
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1186 posts in this forum Offline

Whoever is concerned with where the above statement came from more than what the context of the above is must be a retarded minded person..

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #185
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5608 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Whoever is concerned with where the above statement came from more than what the context of the above is must be a retarded minded person..

They are two different things. A not so subtle difference but one that obviously eludes what passes for your intelligence. If you read it why not cite it? Or would you rather try to start a controversy instead? If you had had a higher education, especially in science, you would never question the validity and importance of citing your references.

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #186
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1186 posts in this forum Offline

An authority bounded person accepts whatever Krishnamurti says and rejects it if the same thing is said by another. In fact Krishnamurti saw the danger of it and he declared that there is no Krishnamurti, there is no K. Any way jack keeps repeating the same line over and over. Don't listen to him . That is his belief which conditions his thought just as in the above k statement. The point is that belief conditions thought therefore limits it and makes it useless.

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #187
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 1228 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
There is then neither what you want to do, nor the standard, but right action, without personal identification.

"without personal identification."

quoted from post 183 above

This post was last updated by Peter Kesting Wed, 26 Jun 2019.

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #188
Thumb_em3 Ken D United States 29 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Kesting wrote:
Who is a person. It may be a number of persons. What is an object, an action, an idea and so on, but not a person. In post 173 that was what was meant.

This is so true. But, you see, this is how a scientist, approaching this issue from a physicalist point of view would look at it. The human being is an object and the subjective realm is of little account. The very idea of 'personhood' would have little meaning to a materialist. It would be viewed as a fiction.

"Whence should there be joy to a peaceless man?" Bhagavad Gita

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #189
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5608 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
K. Any way jack keeps repeating the same line over and over. Don't listen to him . That is his belief which conditions his thought just as in the above k statement. The point is that belief conditions thought therefore limits it and makes it useless.

And, of course, you're not conditioned and you have no beliefs. What a joke your posts are. You are so clueless you don't even see it. Have you noticed that every K-site, this one and the others, always cite a reference for every quote that is posted? But you're special. You don't have to cite your quotes.

You can't see that your last sentence above beginning with "...belief conditions..." is an accurate depiction of what all of your endless opinions and conclusions about what you think K is saying are rooted. It's your conditioning along with your general misunderstanding of what K was saying that is the root of all these opinions of yours we must endure day after day.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 26 Jun 2019.

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #190
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 1228 posts in this forum Offline

Ken,

One hundred years ago people assumed that time and space were completely separate. That space and time were changeless absolutes. Einstein changed that by carefully and deeply examining the behavior of light. Most of us today can and do still function as if these two are entirely independent.

Regarding Science and materialism. What is science? I suggest science is understanding the world as the field of cause and effect, determinism. But that is not limited to the scientist. All of everyday practical life for almost everyone assumes determinism. Seeing this we are all as it were scientists and materialists.

Just as space and time are one so also the scientific and the subjective must be related in some way, actually one. There is no real Division.

It looks to this writer that scientists who are trying to find the mind from the outside will never succeed. They would have to somehow get into someone else's mind, becoming of one mind, literally, with that other mind. They do not have any way to measure, or even to detect the existence of, the mind.

As seen here...to this one, at present, as a best guess, sentience is of a dimension beyond space/time. We are that and not the material person at all. Moreover, sentience here is one with sentience everywhere. It has within it no attributes yet it is seen. Having no attributes the sentience that is here cannot be distinguished from that that is there. We are one.

I think K was pointing some of this out. Almost all human beings identify as persons.

When there is no such identification there can be the observation of the material "self" which is actually external. The "observer" can be the observed"

The field of mater, which includes the "false" self is continuous with all the rest of mater as a river.

This post was last updated by Peter Kesting Wed, 26 Jun 2019.

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #191
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1186 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
If you read it why not cite it?

If you don't read it why ask for citation?
They have train you to site any article that is not yours in order to get grades. Wake up, You are an elder not a school boy any more!
I don't tell you what to do so be quiet and mind your own business.

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #192
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1186 posts in this forum Offline

How easily a positive thing is turned into hate and antagonism. As if hate is always waiting to step in . Maybe that is the nature of online. It can turn a good thing into a bad thing.
When the house in on fire what does citations do ? Obviously we are not aware that the house is on fire so we play verbal and intellectual cleverness. We are half sleep as k said(oh let me go and research where Krishnamurti said that .-) . While the house is on fire we go off after each other online!

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #193
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5608 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
If you don't read it why ask for citation?
They have train you to site any article that is not yours in order to get grades. Wake up, You are an elder not a school boy any more!
I don't tell you what to do so be quiet and mind your own business.

I did read it and I want to see the context from where it came. Why do you insist on being such a dumb-ass? By the way, it's not "site" it's "cite". Did you go to school at all?

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #194
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5608 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
How easily a positive thing is turned into hate and antagonism. As if hate is always waiting to step in . Maybe that is the nature of online. It can turn a good thing into a bad thing.

You are the one that set this up by not citing the quote and then making a contemptuous comment about anyone who would make an issue out of it. Are you really too stupid to see that you did that?

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #195
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1186 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Are you really too stupid.

You don't even know the meaning of that word stupid. Do you? Stupid means a person who gives wrong value to things like spelling and citations.:)

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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 #196
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5608 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Stupid means a person who gives wrong value to things like spelling and citations.:)

You like looking words up in the dictionary don't you? How desperate do you have to be to lie about what a word really means? What do you care if I think you're stupid? If you know you aren't then you would just let it go. But you know there is truth in what I say so you are compelled to defend yourself. Which means you just dig the hole deeper and deeper under your feet. See below for the actual definition of "Stupid". I suggest you memorize it.

stu·pid
/?st(y)o?op?d/
adjective
adjective: stupid; comparative adjective: stupider; superlative adjective: stupidest
1.
having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense. That's you brother. By the way the citation for this is "Dictionary.com" found on Google.

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #197
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1186 posts in this forum Offline

I suggest to the readers to ignore Jack's comments unless you wish to have a similar mind like his. I don't know how his wife tolerates his stubenness in the house!:=) we can ignore him but can she! Of course not. So she divorces him.:=)

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #198
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1372 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Whoever is concerned with where the above statement came from more than what the context of the above is must be a retarded minded person..

.

Jack Pine wrote:
They are two different things. A not so subtle difference but one that obviously eludes what passes for your intelligence. If you read it why not cite it? Or would you rather try to start a controversy instead? If you had had a higher education, especially in science, you would never question the validity and importance of citing your references.

Etc..etc.

This seems to be more and more a typical example for the future of humanity, in which people in a perpetual dance try to convince each other of their wrong behavior, without exploring their own motives.

Well done guys, mankind has been doing that for centuries!

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Thu, 27 Jun 2019.

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #199
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 641 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Thanks for these reflections Wim and I hope you are being treated well in hospital.

Wim Opdam, I am glad you are back here contributing and I wish you continued health and recovery.

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #200
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5608 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
I don't know how his wife tolerates his stubenness in the house!:=) we can ignore him but can she! Of course not. So she divorces him.:=)

This is the kind of low-life you actually are. Bringing a man's wife into a discussion to try to insult someone. What a true vile coward you are. I'm guessing you don't even have a partner.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 27 Jun 2019.

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #201
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5608 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
This seems to be more and more a typical example for the future of humanity, in which people in a perpetual dance try to convince each other of their wrong behavior, without exploring their own motives.

Wim, I am really tired of this guy's (one self) bullshit. He consistently comes on here with the most ignorant comments and opinions about what he thinks K is "actually" saying. He's an under educated moron who tries to dominate this forum with his idiotic posts.

And Wim, it's easy to smugly judge others while convincing yourself you are above the fray. I really don't give a god damn anymore. We have an idiot for president and millions of idiots who support him along with an opposition party that is completely corrupt and gutless. Then to come here and have to put up with one self's idiocy seems so unnecessary.

Then throw in the fact that the environmental systems of this planet are collapsing while countless species are going extinct and, what the hell? It's over. We're screwed as a species and we did it to ourselves.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 27 Jun 2019.

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #202
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 641 posts in this forum Offline

Huguette .,

Your post #174 is almost all questions, many rhetorical and encouraging certain avenues of investigation. As I said, to me all questions are fine. That is what freedom from authority means. You can inquire into anything and need not be restricted by what anyone else says, including Buddha, Christ, Krishnamurti, etc. Further inquiry may reveal assumptions in questions.

Of course, there are plenty of people with no interest in questioning self. Perhaps they want to maximize pleasure, minimize suffering, and not be bothered by questioning, including questioning about self. But if someone is here at kinfonet, then very likely they are someone interested in the question of self, the ways that self may or may not exist.

I certainly agree that important questions come from what is vital, from life and what really matters, as opposed to the frivolous and speculative. But again, I don't think any question is wrong. And in questioning together, it may be revealed what is vital and what is superficial.

Huguette . wrote:
And “shared experiencing” means that we human beings are experiencing the same thing in the moment.

In the moment, there is discovery. There may be connection or isolation, sharing or not, stillness or commotion. The moment reveals what is, opens to awareness. The moment is only when there is no preconception. We cannot know in advance anything about the moment. It is only accessed when we set aside everything and look. Yes?

This post was last updated by idiot ? Thu, 27 Jun 2019.

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #203
Thumb_stringio Huguette . Canada 539 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
Asking "Who am I?" is vastly different from asking "What am I?"
Both have different assumptions behind them.

I don’t disagree, Ken.

As I see it, “one who” begins questioning life, action, relationship, suffering, and so on, might ask “who am I” - “I am sometimes angry, afraid, conceited, self-deprecating, anxious, jealous, kind, cruel, and so on. So who am I really, which one is the real me?”

By looking into it, the questioning itself is in movement, it changes, and a new question arises: “what am I?”

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #204
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1425 posts in this forum Offline

Wim

Did you get my #172 to you?

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #205
Thumb_stringio Huguette . Canada 539 posts in this forum Offline

re 202:

You have a point, Idiot. I’m not saying any question is invalid or wrong where it arises spontaneously, innocently. What makes a question wrong, as I see it, is where it is attached to a conclusion or motive, where it is attached to the desire to be right, to win an argument, and so on. That is a wrong question, a frivolous question, as I see it.

idiot ? wrote:
We cannot know in advance anything about the moment. It is only accessed when we set aside everything and look. Yes?

It is not that “we set aside everything and look”, as I see it. It is that nothing is set aside and everything is looked at. If nothing is set aside, then fear, conceit, desire, and so on, are observed, and it is from the looking itself that understanding flowers and questions arise. I could be wrong.

This post was last updated by Huguette . Thu, 27 Jun 2019.

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #206
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1372 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
Wim

Did you get my #172 to you?

Yes I did Dan, but mostly here I'm offline and or not capable to respond. I've read a part but not the whole article. Now i've time To much reading is

now I have plenty of time but reading too much brings my disadvantages because of my eye disability, so I have to balance with recuvary time.

The last test has now been discontinued due to the non-adequatye preparation and they will try again tomorrow. they have to take a dioption in my small intestine.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #207
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1425 posts in this forum Offline

Best of luck to you!

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #208
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1372 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Wim, I am really tired of this guy's (one self) bullshit. He consistently comes on here with the most ignorant comments and opinions about what he thinks K is "actually" saying. He's an under educated moron who tries to dominate this forum with his idiotic posts.

Jack,

why should you worry about situations like that - that's what is - sorry to say - but that is pure energy waste.

Once i was wrongly accused of an act that I also find was terrible, initially I let it pass me by, but when I noticed in my surroundings that people started to believe it, an action suddenly came that apparently was so right that the gossip stopped.

Jack Pine wrote:
We're screwed as a species and we did it to ourselves.

I'll say we *do it ourselves by continuing doing things
Tand a long way starts with a first step.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #209
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5608 posts in this forum Offline

Wim, the best of fortune to you with your health issues. I sincerely hope this will all turn out well for you. Holding good thoughts for you and your speedy recovery.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 27 Jun 2019.

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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 #210
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 641 posts in this forum Offline

Huguette . wrote:
It is not that “we set aside everything and look”, as I see it. It is that nothing is set aside and everything is looked at. If nothing is set aside, then fear, conceit, desire, and so on, are observed, and it is from the looking itself that understanding flowers and questions arise.

By "set aside everything" I meant not to have preconceived ideas. I did not mean setting aside what is, as in ignoring reality.

If I think I already know something about fear then that will color how I look at it, yes? On the other hand, if I notice that I am afraid, I have the opportunity to look at it in the moment, directly, to not be apart from it. To do that, I must set aside ideas about fear, and really ideas period. I have to let go of thought and go into what is: fear. Then I may realize that I am not different than the fear. Then there can be staying with. Then there may be transformation, freedom from fear.

In this process I may discover a connection between thought and fear. But if I remain bound up in thought, there will be no awareness, and the moment and possibility of discovery will be missed.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Thu, 27 Jun 2019.

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