Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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K: Negative thinking is the highest thinking.


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Sun, 17 Nov 2019 #1
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1512 posts in this forum Offline

Does anybody know what he means by "negative thinking" opposed or different from "positive thinking"?

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Sun, 17 Nov 2019 #2
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Maybe he meant have a negative attitude toward thought. Don't just accept or deny and call that thinking which is in fact thoughtlessness.

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Thu, 21 Nov 2019 #3
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One has to start from "What is " according to K. Thought is contradictory and negative in it's very nature. So one has to start from that fact that thought is divisive in its nature... which means that one has to doubt one's own thought and protections ..

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Sat, 23 Nov 2019 #4
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Krishnamurti gave hints. It is for us to pursue the hints that we felt at some time from K in our lives. If we ignore them then we end up where we are. Self-protective and violent and the rest of it.
Krishnamurti gave a hint about the image-maker which is part of thought and desire. The image-maker is another image. That is important to be understood and not to be put aside casually.

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Tue, 26 Nov 2019 #5
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It could be that to find out what" negative thinking" that k speaks of one has to learn about "positive thinking" which in fact is thoughtlessness and ignorance.

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Fri, 29 Nov 2019 #6
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Gee, is there anybody out there :)

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Fri, 29 Nov 2019 #7
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Gee

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Tue, 10 Dec 2019 #8
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 140 posts in this forum Offline

I Don't know what K meant - maybe you could find the quote for some context.
Your question demands we define thought. Maybe you could do that.
Meanwhile "negative thinking" brings up images for me of belief, authority and the confused thinking that arises from that : like a caged animal constantly going round in circles.
"Positive thinking" would be that which arises out of what is and leaves no trace.

Look, see, let go

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Sat, 14 Dec 2019 #9
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Thought is negative so it has to be approached negatively. I don't known if anybody in this forum can relate to that? Thought is a dead thing but by repetition it gives momentum to itself.

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Sun, 15 Dec 2019 #10
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 140 posts in this forum Offline

Most people do judge things to be positive or negative

This is thought in motion : creating desire and aversion

Look, see, let go

This post was last updated by Douglas MacRae-Smith Sun, 15 Dec 2019.

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Mon, 16 Dec 2019 #11
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Words are thought and words are dead things. When a static dead thing tries to control a living and dynamic thing then there is obviously conflict and misery. That is what is happening in world.

This post was last updated by One Self Mon, 16 Dec 2019.

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Sat, 21 Dec 2019 #12
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If I remember correctly Krishnamurti spoke about none-verbal thinking.
none-verbal means no-verbal . Most of us are caught in words, I am a Christian or I am an Englishmen or i am an Arab are mer verbal identifications therefore they prevent the none-verbal communication that is essential in communication.

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Sun, 22 Dec 2019 #13
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 140 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Most of us are caught in words, I am a Christian or I am an Englishmen or i am an Arab are mer verbal identifications therefore they prevent the none-verbal communication that is essential in communication.

The "me vs. you" becomes "us vs. them"?

Look, see, let go

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Sun, 22 Dec 2019 #14
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 140 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
none-verbal thinking.

Whats this? Sudden Insight, maybe?

Look, see, let go

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Sun, 22 Dec 2019 #15
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What is important is to realize that words and images act as curtains in observation . Images bring division and waste the very energy that is necesary to observe therefore transform 'what is'.

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Sun, 05 Jan 2020 #16
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One Self wrote:
What is important is to realize that words and images act as curtains in observation . Images bring division and waste the very energy that is necesary to observe therefore transform 'what is'.

The images made by hand or the mind by humans through out the world have been preventing direct perception in man.

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Sun, 05 Jan 2020 #17
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And us being part of the manhood need to stop acting as a 6 year old who asks for sympathy . The sympathy thing never worked. Positive thinking is practically an evil thing to teach our children.

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Mon, 06 Jan 2020 #18
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Krishnamurti Quote of the Day
Public Talk 25th January, 1948 | Mumbai, India

Now, because the individual, you and I, are not creative, we have reduced society to this chaos. So, you and I have to be creative, because the problem is urgent; you and I must be aware of the causes of the collapse of society and create a new structure based, not on mere imitation, but on our creative understanding. Now, this implies, does it not?, negative thinking. Negative thinking is the highest form of understanding. That is, in order to understand what is creative thinking, we must approach the problem negatively; because a positive approach to the problem - which is that you and I must become creative in order to build a new structure of society - will be imitative. To understand that which is crumbling, we must investigate it, examine it negatively, not with a positive system, a positive formula, a positive conclusion.

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Mon, 06 Jan 2020 #19
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Krishnamurti :
"Negative thinking is the highest form of understanding. That is, in order to understand what is creative thinking, we must approach the problem negatively; because a positive approach to the problem - which is that you and I must become creative in order to build a new structure of society - will be imitative."

So negative thinking in fact is not thinking in the ordinary sense. It is the only right approach to creativity.

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Mon, 06 Jan 2020 #20
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One Self wrote:
K: To understand that which is crumbling, we must investigate it, examine it negatively, not with a positive system, a positive formula, a positive conclusion.

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Fri, 10 Jan 2020 #21
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Public Talk 25th January, 1948 | Mumbai, India

Now, because the individual, you and I, are not creative, we have reduced society to this chaos. So, you and I have to be creative, because the problem is urgent; you and I must be aware of the causes of the collapse of society and create a new structure based, not on mere imitation, but on our creative understanding. Now, this implies, does it not?, negative thinking. Negative thinking is the highest form of understanding. That is, in order to understand what is creative thinking, we must approach the problem negatively; because a positive approach to the problem - which is that you and I must become creative in order to build a new structure of society - will be imitative. To understand that which is crumbling, we must investigate it, examine it negatively, not with a positive system, a positive formula, a positive conclusion.

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Fri, 10 Jan 2020 #22
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Krishnamurti Quote of the Day
Ojai, California | Fourth Talk in The Oak Grove, 1946

Questioner: What is wrong with purposeful thinking if it is logical?

Krishnamurti: If the thinker is unaware of himself, though he may be purposeful, his logic will inevitably lead him to misery; if he is in authority, in a position of power, he brings misery and destruction upon others. That is what is happening in the world, is it not? Without self-knowledge, thought is not based on reality, it is ever in contradiction and its activities are mischievous and harmful.

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Fri, 10 Jan 2020 #23
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Krishnamurti Quote of the Day
Ojai, California | Fourth Talk in The Oak Grove, 1946

Questioner: What is wrong with purposeful thinking if it is logical?

Krishnamurti: If the thinker is unaware of himself, though he may be purposeful, his logic will inevitably lead him to misery; if he is in authority, in a position of power, he brings misery and destruction upon others. That is what is happening in the world, is it not? Without self-knowledge, thought is not based on reality, it is ever in contradiction and its activities are mischievous and harmful.

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Fri, 10 Jan 2020 #24
Thumb_2494 Peter Speelman Netherlands 25 posts in this forum Offline

What is negative and what is positive? Most of us are used to being told what to do. The giving and following of directions is considered to be positive teaching. To be led appears to be positive, constructive, and to those who are conditioned to follow, the truth that following is evil seems negative, destructive. Truth is the negation of the false, not the opposite of the false. Truth is entirely different from the positive and the negative, and a mind which thinks in terms of the opposites can never be aware of it.

Series II - Chapter 44 - 'Positive And Negative Teaching'

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Fri, 10 Jan 2020 #25
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 140 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Speelman wrote:
The giving and following of directions is considered to be positive teaching.

Somebody should tell this to the French

Look, see, let go

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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 #26
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Peter Speelman wrote:
What is negative and what is positive? Most of us are used to being told what to do. The giving and following of directions is considered to be positive teaching.

I think we know by now that positive thinking is imitative and it never leads us to creativity. Our problem is to be creative and not imitative any more.

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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 #27
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The action of thought is based on self -concern or greed. Greed being mechanical will never lead us to creative happiness. So the question is that what does lead us to creative happiness if thought can't?

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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 #28
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 140 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
I think we know by now that positive thinking is imitative

Sorry, I still Don't know what positive thinking is. It has not yet been explained clearly and Simply to me.

Look, see, let go

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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 #29
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 140 posts in this forum Offline

Hold on! Positive thinking would be bad. As in based on our conditioning?

Wait - Its actually Negative thinking (the good, creative one) that I Don't understand clearly.

Look, see, let go

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Sat, 11 Jan 2020 #30
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Douglas MacRae-Smith wrote:
Wait - Its actually Negative thinking (the good, creative one) that I Don't understand clearly

To approach positively the 'negative thinking' is again falling into the trap of imitation which is not creative. 0

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