Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
General Discussion | moderated by Dev Singh

Reza Ganjavi interview with Dr. Scott Forbes


Displaying posts 31 - 60 of 144 in total
Fri, 24 Jan 2020 #31
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

Two restless minds gossiping. Krishnamurti was nobody that you could possibly categorize and merely saying that he was an ordinary man is a lie. Ordinary man has a local and imitative mind and can never relate to universal mind that K had. And if you notice there is no perfume of the teachings in the above conversations . Just useless and misleading opinions about a dead thing.

This post was last updated by One Self Fri, 24 Jan 2020.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Sat, 25 Jan 2020 #32
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

I think that the whole of Krishnamurti's teachings can be summarized in one action. To live with an image and support it all the time or to have no image at all. We are very familiar with having an image or idea and defend it but we have no experience to have absolutely no image.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Sat, 25 Jan 2020 #33
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

The image is like a heavy curtain. You cannot easily remove it. It needs a surgical operating that you don't know of..(always including myself or one- self.)

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Sat, 25 Jan 2020 #34
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

The image is like a heavy curtain. You cannot easily remove it. It needs a surgical operating that you don't know of..(always including myself or one- self.)

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Sun, 26 Jan 2020 #35
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

I continue to make my way through the video that Sean Hen links to at the beginning of this thread. I only do a little at a time.

At 41 minutes in the video, Forbes says the only two people K ever said were evil were D. Rajagopal and Rosalind Rajagopal. The woman with whom he had a sexual and romantic relationship with for decades was "evil?"

There is more than one side to the story. Obviously, Forbes takes one side.

Soon after that part of the video, Forbes says he doesn't know the details of the lawsuits. Well, who does?!!! I don't know but it seems like aspects of the settlements were sealed. K probably didn't want his affair with Rosalind made public. It didn't come out until after K was dead and Lives In The Shadow was published. What else was involved in the settlements? It may be a very long time before details are publicly known. Clearly stuff was kept secret. We simply don't know.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Sun, 26 Jan 2020.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Sun, 26 Jan 2020 #36
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Now I've made it to minute 52 or so and Forbes is talking about education and K's approach to it. What is K's approach to education? Forbes, who has a doctorate in education and has studied K on education doesn't know. He says no one knows! He says he has studied it more than anyone and he doesn't know.

Let me tell you something. K's schools are a disaster. I know people who went to them and they all say that the schools are overly permissive, kids sneaking off to get high, etc., unorganized - because god forbid we organize anything, and anything learned is despite the way the schools are run, not because of it.

K teachings are by and large about being free of education, aren't they?, free of the known. They are anti-education. They can be great for being a can opener for the already educated mind. But they are a disaster when it comes to putting knowledge into young heads in the first place.

The video mentions that kids at K schools have often never read a K book! Well, yeah. No doubt they have teachers trying their best to put into practice what K discussed with regard to education. But it doesn't work.

Was K a good student? No. His teachers never said he was. He stared out of the window when he was being tested for entry into Oxford and he didn't pass. He couldn't get into university.

Forbes thinks that education is how the teachings will become more widely known. I don't agree.

Yes, a good teacher is aware of what is. But a good teacher is also skilled at imparting the known, not just being free of the known.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Sun, 26 Jan 2020.

Sign in to recommend  This post has been recommended by 1 reader
Back to Top
Sun, 26 Jan 2020 #37
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 159 posts in this forum Offline

I very nearly went to Brockwood Park, but ended up sneaking off to get high at a strict boarding school instead.

Look, see, let go

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Sun, 26 Jan 2020 #38
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5795 posts in this forum Offline

Idiot, my step-son went to the Oak Grove School and I knew many other kids who went there too. And their parents.

I live here in Ojai half the year within easy walking distance of the Oak Grove School and the school is not as you say. It has a good reputation. I have also known many teachers who taught at the Oak Grove at one time or another and they don't substantiate your opinions.

It's obvious you are down on K and most everything he was involved with. You have a lot of opinions about many things K did or said. But opinions aren't facts.

I was one of the carpenters that built the grade school back in 1978-79. It's a beautiful school built among some California Live Oaks and adjacent to a meadow that serves as a soccer field. Each building is two story with the classroom below and quarters for the teacher above. They are all wood covered by wooden shakes and left natural color. Each individual classroom building is connected to the others by a wooden deck that surrounds all the buildings. I think, if I remember correctly, that there are six classroom. Since then a high school building has been added and there is an building dedicated to art and other non-academic activities.

There is also a two-story school director's quarters and administration offices.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 27 Jan 2020.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #39
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Was K a good student? No.

That is a silly question, isn't It? K was the world teacher . That is hard for a local mind to understand.
And yes the school in Ojai is a mediocre school with mediocre instructors who are not involved with the teachings (just like we are not involved with the teachings and only like to gossip about K in here ) .

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #40
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

I hope I am wrong about the K schools. I have spoken to several people who did not have good experiences there.

Looking at the reviews for Oak Grove School, it currently gets a lot of positive reviews.

One person I know who had a bad experience went to a school where Rosalind Rajagopal was the principal. So that was a very long time ago.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 27 Jan 2020.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #41
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine, since you sent your step son to Oak Grove School, it's not surprising that you think it was a good school. I'm curious. What does your step son think? Does he think it was a good school for him?

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #42
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Jack

idiot ? wrote:
Jack Pine, since you sent your step son to Oak Grove School,

It seems that 'idiot' jumps into conclusion quickly. The stepson may have been put there by his real father. Jack don't seem to be a generous guy. He is into insulting and advocating his self -image.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #43
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5795 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Jack Pine, since you sent your step son to Oak Grove School, it's not surprising that you think it was a good school. I'm curious. What does your step son think? Does he think it was a good school for him?

I didn't have anything to do with where my stepson went to school. And I have never heard him complain about the school. I had several friends whose children went to Oak Grove and they had no problem with the school either. What is your problem? What are you trying to prove about K and all that he did?

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #44
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
And you are an asshole with poor English..

I was looking up the word 'anal' just a minutes ago and I read the above jack's insult. It is very descriptive and related.
" of or pertaining to a group of adult personality traits that include being meticulous, rigid, and ungenerous.".

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #45
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Thank you, one self, for further explaining my personality and your resulting posting habits to the forum. And I am elated that I was able to help me realize something about myself.

You are welcome:)

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #46
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 935 posts in this forum Offline

Idiot?, I think we have to be careful when speaking generally about a group of schools like the Krishnamurti Schools based on comments made from a fairly small group of people. There are various factors to take into account here:


  • No two K schools will be the same.

  • The same school may change over a period of time due to changes in teachers, principle etc.

  • Two students' experience of the same school at the same time may differ greatly due to the different teachers and classmates they have had.

We would hope and expect that the Krishnamurti schools try to recruit teachers who are capable, motivated, creative and who have some knowledge of the teachings. We would also expect the Krishnamurti schools to be good employers who treat their teachers well by giving them a good salary and working conditions. In addition, I would think that Krishnamurti schools would be well equipped and resourced. I have no idea if all of the above is the case or not.

Good teachers, wherever they work, will try to create an atmosphere of mutual respect, trust, humour and affection in their classroom. They will try to foster an atmosphere where learning is fun and there is a sense of exploration and discovery. Of course, there are factors outside a teacher's control which sometimes have a negative impact on the classroom atmosphere and these may be very challenging to deal with.

Without more information, I think it is impossible to come to any conclusion about the Krishnamurti schools around the world.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #47
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Yes, I am sorry. It is not fair of me to condemn K schools based on comments from a few of my friends. For them, their experience there was not good. For others it may be great. And looking at some reviews, many people currently rate at least one K school very highly.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 27 Jan 2020.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #48
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5795 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
And yes the school in Ojai is a mediocre school with mediocre instructors who are not involved with the teachings

You don't know anything about the school or the teachers. Most likely you can't name one teacher. I don't mean the one or two who have written books about K and the school. I mean the rank and file.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #49
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 935 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
What are you (referring to idiot?) trying to prove about K and all that he did?

Jack, I must say that I don't personally interpret idiot's questioning of certain aspects of K's life as him trying to undermine the teachings. There are things that are difficult to understand such as K's relationship with Rajagopal and his wife Rosalind but if anything it's good to see the human side of Krishnamurti which in no way detracts from the teachings as far as I see. We human beings are all capable of making mistakes and most of do so all the time.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Jan 2020 #50
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5795 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
One person I know who had a bad experience went to a school where Rosalind Rajagopal was the principal. So that was a very long time ago.

Oak Grove School was built well after the Happy Valley School in the Upper Ojai Valley where Rosalind was the director. The Happy Valley School is still going as far as I know but, of course, Rosalind is long gone.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 27 Jan 2020.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Tue, 28 Jan 2020 #51
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
This interview with Scott Forbes is a little over 1 hour 14 minutes long. I'm sure anyone interested in Krishnamurti and the teachings will find it very interesting.

Well, I slogged through that whole video. And... Well, Sean Hen I have a lot of respect for you and your postings here but I don't get what you found of significance in it. Can you please talk about that? And as far as I can see I'm the only one besides you who watched it. Anyone else have anything to say about the video?

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Tue, 28 Jan 2020 #52
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
One interesting thing that Scott Forbes said in the interview was that apart from K himself, the person who came closest to actually living the teachings was Mary Zimbalist. I suppose this shouldn't really be surprising as she was the person closest to K for many years and this proximity must have had a strong impact on her. Scott Forbes also credited Mary Z as having liberated K from Rajagopal, and that this allowed the teachings to become more fully developed. I need to watch that section again but these two points struck me as important. Any thoughts on this?

Well, what does it mean to live the teachings and who can say if someone else does or does not? Mary Z. certainly did not challenge K in the interesting way that Bohm did. He pressed for clarification like no one else. To me she seems quite passive, obedient, protecting and revering K rather than challenging him.

And she liberated K from Rajagopal? I don't know that she did. It seems a number of people were involved, including lawyers and patrons.

Almost all the great K books came out when D. Rajagopal was involved, and many of them were edited by him. So I also question whether the teachings became "more fully developed" after his departure.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Tue, 28 Jan 2020.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Wed, 29 Jan 2020 #53
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1404 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Almost all the great K books came out when D. Rajagopal was involved, and many of them were edited by him. So I also question whether the teachings became "more fully developed" after his departure.

I don't know to which books you referred to, but 'the ending of time' is certainly after the departure. Also all the audiotapes en videotapes are from this periode after. As i see it those tapes are the only 100% pure sources from the teaching. Every book is edited and this is done by people who made a selection or choice bounded by there level of conditioning.

If one look to a video and reading the book at the same time you discover how very small adjustments does something with your own understanding.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Wed, 29 Jan 2020.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Wed, 29 Jan 2020 #54
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 935 posts in this forum Offline

Idiot, I'm sorry to hear that you've wasted 1 hour 14 minutes watching this video that I posted. Well, I thought it was interesting but maybe that's just me and I suppose I am easily pleased in these matters - I've read three volumes of Mary Lutyen's biographies of K and Mary Z's unfinished book and found all of them fascinating. For me, they threw light on the teachings.

As you say idiot?, it's not clear that anyone else here actually watched the interview with Scott Forbes. Like I said, I found it surprising that Scott Forbes said that Mary Zimbalist lived the teachings more than anyone else except K himself. I understand that he meant that she was extremely selfless much of the time. What do you think he meant?

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Wed, 29 Jan 2020 #55
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
I don't know to which books you referred to, but 'the ending of time' is certainly after the departure.

Think On These Things, The First and Last Freedom, and many other important books were made when D. Rajagopal was around.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Wed, 29 Jan 2020 #56
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
I understand that he meant that she was extremely selfless much of the time. What do you think he meant?

Yes, Mary Zimbalist was remarkably selfless. She worked tirelessly for K, when she could have just retired on her wealth. Was she free of K? She said so. But K was pretty much everything she was involved with at the end of her life, yes? (As far as we know.)

There are a lot of people in this world who sacrifice tremendously for others. And that is wonderful. But to live what K taught, to me there is also insight, moment to moment awareness, something quite undefinable.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Wed, 29 Jan 2020.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Wed, 29 Jan 2020 #57
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Think On These Things, The First and Last Freedom, and many other important books were made when D. Rajagopal was around.

k was alive then and it would have been stupid that k would allow someone else change the content of his book and publish it without his permission..

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Wed, 29 Jan 2020 #58
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
As far as I know the only books of Krishnamurti not fiddled with by others are Krishnamurti's Notebook and Krishnamurti's Journal.

As far as I don't know the above sounds very silly and unfounded.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Wed, 29 Jan 2020 #59
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

We are getting closer to the conspiracy theory (rather than the facts ) in here. Nice escape!

Sign in to recommend  This post has been recommended by 1 reader
Back to Top
Thu, 30 Jan 2020 #60
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 935 posts in this forum Offline

Ken, I'm glad you found the video interesting. Like you, I'm not sure what I actually took from it. I didn't really understand what Scott Forbes was saying about education. Perhaps I'd need to watch that part again.

Idiot?, for me, "living the teachings", as you said, must surely involve a constant, high level of awareness and sensitivity which probably instantly brings about a degree of selflessness. Did Scott Forbes mean that Mary Z lived this way? We don't know, and it's a pity the interviewer didn't take the opportunity to take this line of questioning further.

Scott Forbes was, as I understand it, one of the people closest to K for many years. How much were the people closest to K able to understand and live the teachings? In many ways they had access to explore them more deeply than we can here as they had such close contact with K himself. How much of the teachings rubbed off on them?

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Displaying posts 31 - 60 of 144 in total
To quote a portion of this post in your reply, first select the text and then click this "Quote" link.

(N.B. Be sure to insert an empty line between the quoted text and your reply.)