Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Where there is self-interest love is not.


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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 #1
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 935 posts in this forum Offline

Some of you may have seen this video of Krishnamurti talking to the English writer Iris Murdoch before. I had never come across it before and found it interesting. It's just over an hour long so it's quite a long watch. You can watch the video here.

Any thoughts on this?

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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 #2
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen, why don't you say what it is interesting to you about the video?

I'm four minutes in and already bored out of my mind. They're talking about "experience" and she is saying that K seems to use the word in a very limited sense. Here's a definition of "experience" that I just looked up: "practical contact with and observation of facts or events." K never uses the word in that neutral sense, does he? For him, "experience" is negative, storing away something that happened in the past and its inevitable misuse when recalled and misapplied to a somewhat different present moment situation. But she rightly says that "experience" need not mean that at all. It can mean a present moment encounter with facts.

Anyway, this is quickly ignored and K is off to his usual: the experiencer cannot be separated from the experience. I will now continue watching the predictable.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Sun, 16 Feb 2020.

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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 #3
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Okay, now I've spent ten minutes on this video. Absolutely nothing of interest in it so far. She reacts and speculates in an intellectual way. K tries to bring in his usual themes.

I'm done, unless you can point me to a time when something interesting happens.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Sun, 16 Feb 2020.

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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 #4
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 935 posts in this forum Offline

To be honest, I find the whole thing really interesting. I never, ever have found listening to K boring. I listen with attention as what he is saying is so very, very challenging. Can there really be a way to love without possession, jealousy and attachment? Can we really live like that?

Idiot?, it sounds like you feel frustrated listening to K. It sounds like his message has lost its freshness for you. Is that right?

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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 #5
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 159 posts in this forum Offline

The teaching is Always put across in the style of a conversation with the audience.

And here we get the impression he is having an actual conversation with Iris Murdoch, a quality interlocuter. But I Wonder : does K have any sense of the person in front of him? Or is the teaching : one size fits all?

Look, see, let go

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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 #6
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Douglas MacRae-Smith wrote:
does K have any sense of the person in front of him? Or is the teaching : one size fits all?

K is extremely aware and has a very good sense of the person in front of him. AND his teaching is one size fits all.

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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 #7
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Can there really be a way to love without possession, jealousy and attachment? Can we really live like that?

Not if you're a grouch like idiot.

I'm just not interested in hearing standard K again and again and again. Bindair Dundat. I like when K discusses a rare topic for him, like inattention instead of attention. Or I like when someone challenges him in an interesting way. In short, I'm attached to my own likes and dislikes and I DO care what happens.

A video I really liked was the one that Ken D. cited a few months back. It was long and talked about stepping out of the stream among other things. I think I'll go back and watch that one.

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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 #8
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 935 posts in this forum Offline

Why don't you post that one here Idiot? I'd like to see it.

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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 #9
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

We were talking about the long, nearly two hour, video in this thread: http://www.kinfonet.org/forums/2-general-discus... starting at about post #108. I seem to have watched more than an hour of it but I don't think I made it to the end. Unfortunately, Ken D. always deletes his posts. So we no longer have the link to the video. Perhaps he can repost it?

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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 #10
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

Douglas MacRae-Smith wrote:
Or is the teaching : one size fits all?

Keep studying krishnamurti and you will find out that there is no frame or mold that anybody can fit in.

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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 #11
Thumb_coa104 Ken D United States 18 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti and Buddhist Scholars on Death - 1979

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np57tASzQyc

"Sow the seed of freedom, which is to awaken intelligence; for with that intelligence you can tackle all the problems of life." Krishnamurti

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Mon, 17 Feb 2020 #12
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
Krishnamurti and Buddhist Scholars on Death - 1979

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np57tASzQyc

Thank you, Ken D. I'm quoting you with the link to the video so we'll have it if, in the future, you delete the above post.

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Mon, 17 Feb 2020 #13
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

We listen to k when we are at the bottom of our existence . When we come to a dead. Then we start to listen to k . That is the main flaw.

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Mon, 17 Feb 2020 #14
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 935 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Okay, now I've spent ten minutes on this video. Absolutely nothing of interest in it so far

What comes across to me is that K lived a lot of his life with some kind of innocence in movement. As soon as thought appeared, that innocence was gone and love went with it.

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Mon, 17 Feb 2020 #15
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
What comes across to me is that K lived a lot of his life with some kind of innocence in movement. As soon as thought appeared, that innocence was gone and love went with it.

Innocence is just another word for simple, clear awareness, for kind sensitivity, for the silent mind undivided by thought, isn't it?

Yes, to me, this is the fundamental. This is the foundation for all of K's teaching.

Yet if you say so, some here at kinfonet will be quick to jump on you. Is it true for you personally? As if there could be a self for which it is true. Obviously when it is true there is no sense of self, which comes about when thought divides a self from surroundings.

Some people say to focus on the innocence is to create an ideal. They say "what is" is fear, greed, envy, etc. Focus on those, not on some imagined ideal.

And K did say to be aware of those things. But he also pointed to a vast emptiness, a clear awareness where thought has naturally stilled. To deny that is to deny K teaching.

So then we come to the catch 22 that there is no method. The silence is extremely important but there is no technique to get there.

Yet K does offer self knowledge, following every thought with awareness. And he points out the importance of real meditation, done without any motivation, without any trying to get something out of it.

Each of us can discover silence. Not by watching lots of K videos. Not by reading lots of K books. By attention. Attention done, not for a goal, but for its own sake.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 17 Feb 2020.

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Tue, 18 Feb 2020 #16
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 935 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Innocence is just another word for simple, clear awareness, for kind sensitivity, for the silent mind undivided by thought, isn't it?

I'd say that innocence has an element of openness, vulnerability and not knowing. Of course, you can't just decide that you'll be innocent; you can't set out to be like this.

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Tue, 18 Feb 2020 #17
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
I'd say that innocence has an element of openness, vulnerability and not knowing.

Agreed. Although vulnerability implies a self capable of being injured. So not so sure about that characteristic.

Sean Hen wrote:
Of course, you can't just decide that you'll be innocent; you can't set out to be like this.

But awareness itself is innocent. Innocence simply is, naturally, until the known/thought is brought in, yes?

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Tue, 18 Feb 2020 #18
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 332 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Yet K does offer self knowledge, following every thought with awareness. And he points out the importance of real meditation, done without any motivation, without any trying to get something out of it.

K. does offer self knowledge..etc. , all that. But whether we see the importance of all that by ourselves, or just conform to all that because K. offer it is maybe what make the distinction between a method, a system aim to a goal, and something not mechanical and alive.

Why would we have to follow each thought ? Is there any revelation in doing so ? Will that lead to silence?

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Wed, 19 Feb 2020.

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Tue, 18 Feb 2020 #19
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 332 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Although vulnerability implies a self capable of being injured.

If the self is an image of myself and you injured me (that image)...As long as there is an image, a self, , it will be injured. No image, no self, no injured. What is vulnerability, I still wonder.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Tue, 18 Feb 2020.

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