Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Did K ever instructed for dialog between/among ignorants?


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Thu, 02 Sep 2010 #1
Thumb_deleted_user_med Swayam Dutta India 2 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

I have read many translated K books, and I don't remember if he ever instructed for dialog between peoples who don't know.He was always main participant in dialog.Actually it was not dialog. it was clearly statements from a person who knows to person who don't know.Because in dialog everyone take parts, but in K books generally K speaks, other only question.Is there any importance of dialog when every participant is ignorant?Dialog may be helpful if they are between one who know( beyond the knowledge) and one who don't know.So as far as I understand K, in self inquiry there is no role of dialog.Can any one show K quotes where he instructed for dialog between seekers?

Krishnamurty is Guru

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Thu, 02 Sep 2010 #2
Thumb_shining_sun Jim F India 52 posts in this forum Offline

K spoke at length with Bohm about many things, I don't recall if he spoke to him about dialogue itself. Bohm became very interested in the possibilities of dialogue, and if memory serves, wrote a book entitled 'On Dialogue'. It goes into quite some detail as to what is required for dialogue to 'work'.
As you will probably find, most (all?) K forums are a zoo of opinions, beliefs and posturing. As one participant wittily put it "It's like the blind kneeing the blind in the groin"!!

There are some insightful participants, but the fact that they have no following and so no automatic 'kudos' they are often misunderstood or ignored or sometimes attacked.

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Thu, 02 Sep 2010 #3
Thumb_deleted_user_med Swayam Dutta India 2 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jim F wrote:
"It's like the blind kneeing the blind in the groin"!!

This is the point.

Jim F wrote:
There are some insightful participants

Where are they? All who claims to have insight are only parrots.Some people habitually love to speak lie.

Do sun have to announce that he have heat and light?

Sorry dear, insight is not such a popular thing.Do you remember K tried for six decade to awaken the people, and what he said after that? That there was not a single person in whole world who have understood his teaching. And you say there are some insightful people.

Discussion among conditioned people is useless and just move in circle.

Krishnamurty is Guru

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Fri, 24 Sep 2010 #4
Thumb_avatar Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 640 posts in this forum Offline

I hope Swayam Dutta checks this up.

In the last century a whole group of scientists & top technical experts worked on a project to set man on moon. At the time the group of scientists & the technical experts worked on this project nobody amongst them or for that matter on earth had any prior experience of what they were attempting to accomplish.Nevertheless the project was successful.So a person who had carried out the task was not necessary in this instance.

K founded schools in several countries. He was telling the teachers to get off the pedestal & so on & talk to the students.He told the teachers to say that they too have fear & talk to the students about fear.(ref. Letters To Schools)In 'K On Study Centers' K advocated the visitors to discuss with others.

Furthermore the question whether it's possible to inquire alone can be considered. It's possible isn't it?- otherwise we are all doomed. Besides K accomplished it alone.So if inquiry is possible alone then what's to say it's not possible with two or more for all you got to do is just voice aloud the inquiry you carry out alone. So to me dialogue among those who genuinely inquire is possible & can be helpful.

However this is not to say Swayam Dutta was without a valid point.Dialogue may be constructive & useful only if the participants are genuinely interested to learn and are aware of their position-that we are conditioned. If the participants assume or pretend that they are enlightened or awakened then the dialogue will become an activity for self expansion and thus will give rise to a subtle struggle to assert your authority,dominate & so on.

Kapila Kulasinghe.

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Fri, 24 Sep 2010 #5
Thumb_deleted_user_med Soham netti India 248 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
If the participants assume or pretend that they are enlightened or awakened then the dialogue will become an activity for self expansion and thus will give rise to a subtle struggle to assert your authority,dominate & so on.

Learners are few,But teachers are many!So helpful dialog are not common.

Don't need K or any, do yourself

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Fri, 01 Oct 2010 #6
Thumb_avatar Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 640 posts in this forum Offline

Teachers are many- well this may be man's urge to stamp his authority unconsciously due to his deep down fears.Subservience may be another expression of this fear.

K said in Saanen in July 1971 if we do not have the capacity to perceive what is false we cannot see what truth is.So if we listen to a false statement even then the possibility is there of seeing the truth.So this puts the onus on each one to make the dialogue useful to each one of us.

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Fri, 01 Oct 2010 #7
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 1482 posts in this forum Offline

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
So this puts the onus on each one to make the dialogue useful to each one of us.

well said.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Fri, 01 Oct 2010 #8
Thumb_deleted_user_med Soham netti India 248 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
If we do not have the capacity to perceive what is false we cannot see what truth is.So if we listen to a false statement even then the possibility is there of seeing the truth.

Positive thinking.

When K say false, then it includes both true and false thoughts in psych.

Don't need K or any, do yourself

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Fri, 01 Oct 2010 #9
Thumb_img001 Dr.sudhir sharma India 1301 posts in this forum Offline

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
if we do not have the capacity to perceive what is false we cannot see what truth is.So if we listen to a false statement even then the possibility is there of seeing the truth

Isn't it the quality of listening that will determine whether one has the capacity to perceive what is the truth in the false ?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Mon, 04 Oct 2010 #10
Thumb_avatar Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 640 posts in this forum Offline

Yes.

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