In the past 100 years a tremendous percentage of humanity has moved from a rural to urban setting.
Mankind is becoming more and more removed from Nature. We are destroying habitat for wildlife to expand our cities and feed the people and through pure exploitation and greed.

We are destroying the forests which are the lungs of the world. We are depleting the oceans of fish. Also we are killing the oceans and ground and surface fresh water sources with industrial chemicals, pesticides, herbicides and sewage and over extraction. And at the same time the world population is increasing exponentially.

If Mankind doesn't change soon, damn soon, we are finished. Stephen Hawking, noted Bristish theoretical physicist, gives us 200 years to colonize outer space before the planet becomes uninhabitable. Personally, I think he is an optimist. We don't have that long because global climate change will do us in long before that.

Going back to being seperated from Nature: We kill without giving it a second thought. If you eat meat you are adding to an industry that raises and butchers animals in the most inhumane ways. We murder men, women and children in pointless wars so that we may exploit that which is not ours.

Capitalism, one of the main economic systems in play today, is nothing more than a wholly corrupt system for moving as much wealth from the masses to a handful of insatiably greeding bastards at the top of the economic pyramid. And speaking of pyramids, capitalism is the most successful pyramid scheme ever invented.

Ask yourself, what can you do to not perpetuate this system of killing and greed that is destroying the earth?

This post was last updated by David Loucks (account deleted) Mon, 06 Sep 2010.

SAVING THE PLANET

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

Dean, George is dead. He doesn't have to worry anymore. Is this really your response to my question? Post some asinine You Tube crap?

What Carlin said about the extinction of species, the Earths history and its self renewal, is fact. Impermanence is the highest teaching, as Krishnamurti used to say.
Your question pertains to reforming behavior. If you actually observe yourself, conditioning drops away immediately. Killing and ambition are gone for good. You don't have to ask yourself "what can I do?".

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

David Loucks wrote:
Ask yourself, what can you do to not perpetuate this system of killing and greed that is destroying the earth?

This is a good question, and the usual answers will be thrown at it by the usual K-wannabes, but let's ignore them and stay with the question.

First of all, I can't bear to think of myself as someone who kills or is greedy. I can't abide that identity, so I have to do something; begin a rehabilitative program, have an "insight", or whatever, because if I think of myself as a greedy killer, I have to believe I'm undergoing the cure or I have to kill myself. But no...wait! There's a third, a middle, way! I can point the finger at the other guy, contending (by implication) that he's the one that's got to change because I've undergone the change and I'm guiltless and he needs my help!

Dean R. Smith wrote:
SAVING THE PLANET

K's message was that humanity had to undergo a radical change from violent to harmless or cease to exist as a species. Carlin's view, however, is that species come and go and the earth can deal successfully with any species that might seem to be destroying it.

George Carlin saw humanity as irredeemable and worthy of extinction, whereas K saw humanity as redeemable, capable of radical change. So, are there any K-wannabes who are willing to go on youtube to announce their transformation, or must we continue to endure their annoying presence in this forum?

To repeat: What Carlin said about the extinction of species, is a fact. How George Carlin or Krishnamurti saw humanity, is irrelevant. Krishnamurti pointed. Look at what he pointed to or don't look at what he pointed to.

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

David Loucks wrote:
Ask yourself, what can you do to not perpetuate this system of killing and greed that is destroying the earth?

If I see your point David,you speak of what is ones responsibility in this current system of things?

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Dean R. Smith wrote:
To repeat: What Carlin said about the extinction of species, is a fact. How George Carlin or Krishnamurti saw humanity, is irrelevant. Krishnamurti pointed. Look at what he pointed to or don't look at what he pointed to.

Dean, if you would rather listen to Carlin, then listen to Carlin. We are trying to have a serious conversation here. If you don't want to be part of it, if you would rather be contrary then go some place else.

What I stated were facts too. I know about the great extinctions being a geologist and having studied the five big extinctions of the past 600 million years. It's beside the point of what is happening now. Carlin was a comic not a serious person. You got that?

This post was last updated by David Loucks (account deleted) Sun, 05 Sep 2010.

David Loucks wrote:
Carlin was a comic not a serious person. You got that?

You are the one that doesn't get it. You also don't get that your question is a wrong question.

The profile message you left is accessible without being logged on, you know. To save anyone the trouble of checking it out, here it is:

David Loucks wrote:
Sun, 05 Sep 2010, 12:25am
deleted for the sake of the site

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

This post was last updated by Dean R. Smith Mon, 06 Sep 2010.

Dean, by publically posting a personal message that I sent to you proves something to me. A man doesn't do something like that. You are a weeny and as such I have nothing but contempt and disrespect for you.

You are a violent human being.

To repeat: "The profile message you left is accessible without being logged on"

It's not a private message. Anyone can read it!

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

Nick, here's the point or purpose of my original post. We, humanity, are like a virus that is destroying the host, earth. What can each one of us do to not contribute to this idiotic, greedy, short-sighted world? There is no country that is perpetuating this disaster more than the USA. As a person who lives within the borders of the USA I am asking myself this question constantly.

My wife and I raise most of our food for a few months out of the year. But the growing season is short at 6400 feet elevation. We don't eat meat, we don't eat much of anything actually. We limit our consumption of other commodities as much as we can.

My field of study was hydrogeology. The study of groundwater and surface water. I still keep current in it. And let me assure you that we are running out of potable groundwater and surface water at an alarming rate. The Tibetan Plateau, for example, is the source of at least seven major rivers that supply water to people from Pakistan to China. More than two billion people rely on these seven rivers to supply most of their drinking water and irrigation water. The glaciers on this plateau are melting very quickly. No glaciers no, or not much, water. The glaciers could be gone in as little as a couple of decades. The groundwater is already being mined (more being taken out than is being replaced) and polluted. So more than a third of the world's population will be without adequate or no water at all. Can you imagine the consequences of this eventuality? This is happening in the rest of the world too to a greater or lesser degree. We're screwed.

This post was last updated by David Loucks (account deleted) Sun, 05 Sep 2010.

Dean R. Smith wrote:
To repeat: "The profile message you left is accessible without being logged on"
It's not a private message. Anyone can read it!

All you had to do was read it and then delete it. You notice I haven't been posting on here very much. I don't care if I ever post on here again. I'm really sick of know-it-alls like you who have to comment on everything whether you know what you are talking about or not.

This post was last updated by David Loucks (account deleted) Mon, 06 Sep 2010.

RICK LEIN wrote:
If I see your point David,you speak of what is ones responsibility in this current system of things?

Yes.

David Loucks wrote:
Dean, if we ever meet and you mouth off to me like you do on this forum you'll find out how violent I can be. We're all violent. I just don't mind admitting it.

David Loucks wrote:
All you had to do was read it and then delete it Weeny boy. You notice I haven't been posting on here very much. I don't care if I ever post on here. I'm really sick of know-it-alls like you who have to comment on everything whether they know what they are talking about or not.

This is for posterity, you stupid fool. :)

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

David Loucks wrote:
So more than a third of the world's population will be without adequate or no water at all. Can you imagine the consequences of this eventuality? We're screwed.

It does look that way, so I wonder why you're asking if there's anything we can do. Even if we ceased being violent, self-centered beings and we were communing with nature, etc., it wouldn't turn things around. Extinction seems inevitable.

nick carter wrote:
It does look that way, so I wonder why you're asking if there's anything we can do. Even if we ceased being violent, self-centered beings and we were communing with nature, etc., it wouldn't turn things around. Extinction seems enevitable.

I cannot disagree with you. It certainly seems enevitable to me. Did you read the last of three K biographies by Mary L? Even after K was told he was dying he continued to floss his teeth. You do the right thing no matter what until the very end. I can't change the world I can only do what I think is right until my life is over.

This post was last updated by David Loucks (account deleted) Sun, 05 Sep 2010.

David Loucks wrote:
I try to be reasonable in my disagreements on this forum. And for the most part I am. But the only thing that gets through to guys like you is force. I've been in the army in combat and I spent 20 years in house construction as a carpenter (framer) before I went back to school. I've met a lot of guys that mouth off and if you can't reason with them the only thing left is to either walk away or pop them a real good one in the mouth. For some guys the latter is all they understand. I consider you such a guy.

You must like being in jail. That's where violent cretins like you end up. It's illegal to hit people, you know. You've said that everyone is violent, but you are wrong. All those years hanging around old J. K. weren't worth shit, were they? You still haven't looked at what he was pointing to.

The only thing scary about you is that Halloween mask you use as an avatar. :)

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

Dean R. Smith wrote:
All those years hanging around old J. K. weren't worth shit, were they? You still haven't looked at what he was pointing to.

I'm not following K or anyone else. I don't have leaders or gurus like you Weeny. I go my own way and you, of course, have no idea what K is or is not worth to me. I'm signing off so run along and play little boy.

This post was last updated by David Loucks (account deleted) Sun, 05 Sep 2010.

David Loucks wrote:
I'm not following K or anyone else. I don't have leaders or gurus like you Weeny. I go my own way and you, of course, have no idea what K is or is not worth to me. I'm signing off so run along and play little boy.

Nothing you said has anything to do with the fact that you have never looked at what Krishnamurti was pointing to.

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

David,

There is no longer any salvation for mankind since the corruption of self and greed has too much poisoned the human race and its systems. Hard to believe, but homo sapiens is being brought down by a simple thought construct: the "I"; the "self"; the "me."

So long as there is separation there will be conflict - - Krishnamurti pointed this out again and again and again. The separative belief that each of us is an "I" (and it is nothing more than a belief) has been the source of all conflict, within ourselves and in the world. This belief has been universal for millennia - - but now, thanks to a huge world population, dangerous technological advancements and instant communications, the belief in the reality of this phantom has taken us beyond the point of no return.

Can we see any attempt by those in control - - the politicians, the religious leaders, the rich and the powerful - - to search out the primary cause of mankind's eternal, continuing, problems and conflicts? It isn't happening, and it won't happen. Our leaders themselves, leaders in all fields, are too involved in getting along, covering over, blaming the various conditions, coming up with "solutions." All so-called "leaders" are comfortable in their positions and proud to be big names in their fields, and they will resist change - - when necessary at the point of a gun or with the detonation of a bomb. The cancer of the "Self," the "I," remains and continues to spread, and the prognosis is terminal.

max

max greene wrote:
Can we see any attempt by those in control - - the politicians, the religious leaders, the rich and the powerful - - to search out the primary cause of mankind's eternal, continuing, problems and conflicts? It isn't happening, and it won't happen. Our leaders themselves, leaders in all fields, are too involved in getting along, covering over, blaming the various conditions, coming up with "solutions." All so-called "leaders" are comfortable in their positions and proud to be big names in their fields, and they will resist change - - when necessary at the point of a gun or with the detonation of a bomb. The cancer of the "Self," the "I," remains and continues to spread, and the prognosis is terminal.

Indeed the prognosis is terminal. Everything you said is correct. And Max it's good to see you back on the forum.

max greene wrote:
The cancer of the "Self," the "I," remains and continues to spread, and the prognosis is terminal.

It seems that K never gave up, during his lifetime, on humanity's ability to see what it is doing, and to change.

But here we all are, twenty-five years later, and we may well be looking at 'terminal' mankind. So what did we miss in K's teaching? That surely is the question, isn't it?

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
But here we all are, twenty-five years later, and we may well be looking at 'terminal' mankind. So what did we miss in K's teaching? That surely is the question, isn't it?

Some people have missed some things, some others haven't missed anything. Humanity, as I tried to point out, has seperated itself from the rest of Nature. We try to control Nature just as we try to control ourselves and others psychologically. We can't accept what is. We are constantly trying to build what we think should be. Or to put it simply; humanity is just too damn stupid to live. You should see what is happening in this country. The stupidest people are making all of the decisions just as Max pointed out in his last paragraph.

The outcome is still an uncertainty. The future is unknown.

It's true that the path we're on looks to be leading to calamity. But even then, humanity will survive. Of course, we still have time to invent technologies that could virtually guarantee no survivors, but we're not there yet.

Have you seen the Zeitgeist Movement? link text

max greene wrote:
So long as there is separation there will be conflict - - Krishnamurti pointed this out again and again and again. The separative belief that each of us is an "I" (and it is nothing more than a belief) has been the source of all conflict, within ourselves and in the world. This belief has been universal for millennia -

Excellent Max,thank you.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
So what did we miss in K's teaching? That surely is the question, isn't it?

Very good point Patricia,maybe by naming people places and things,this or that,we think we have understood.But have not.This is why it seems sticking with the fundamentals of what the teaching point to makes sense? We seem to be missing the fundamental grasp of human disorder,which is us,as we are,right now?

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

nick carter wrote:
Even if we ceased being violent, self-centered beings and we were communing with nature, etc., it wouldn't turn things around

Hi Nick,we do not know this as a fact do we?It seems that K pointed to radical change of human perception now,so it seems predictions of future are as he pointed out,projections of the known into the unknown?Getting back to David's original post.The way we live our lives in relationship to both our fellow human beings,as well as the whole earth is our responsibility is it not?

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
It seems that K never gave up, during his lifetime, on humanity's ability to see what it is doing, and to change.

He also said: "If you don't want to change, it's alright."

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."