Well, we have read K, and we have a sufficient knowledge of his sayings.Now what to do?

What is his basic theme? Is it awareness?Do we know that how to become aware?Or there is no way?

What to do or not do?

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
Well, we have read K, and we have a sufficient knowledge of his sayings.Now what to do?

Maybe . . . ask a question that you really believe in?

What are you waiting for?

dhirendra singh wrote:
Now what to do?

Hi Dhirendra,

Well, if we are asking this question do you think we have to read more?

dhirendra singh wrote:
What is his basic theme? Is it awareness?Do we know that how to become aware?Or there is no way?

What to do or not do?

What is all this awareness about if not to build a new civilization.

Elan J. wrote:
What is all this awareness about if not to build a new civilization.

Oh no, please . . . not another civilisation!

Perhaps we need an uncivilisation.

What are you waiting for?

dhirendra singh wrote:
Well, we have read K, and we have a sufficient knowledge of his sayings.Now what to do?

What is his basic theme? Is it awareness?Do we know that how to become aware?Or there is no way?

What to do or not do?

hello my friend....

a few words maybe , on your questioning...
i have read k , yes ...interested in his words...the man...
all that sounded great..
i did not learn about "me " by reading K...not a thing. weird .
it was even the opposite.
i already told you...and it means nothing more than my words here , it is my fact.

So i had to remove his views i myself accepted.without real understanding...because it was like a movie ,comfortably sitting in the armchair watching the image while i am totally safe..with some nice homemade yogurt and jam as a dessert...
K is a shaker...and some others too....normal education(propaganda) tells what to think and what to do..and conform to the pattern of the society...to be a good boy..
k wipes that out....with his words...
i tell you the one i remember, not exact quote:
mankind society and life is like a cemetery , the surface is clean , full of colors, flowers, well kept and so on, but under the surface all is rotten., in decomposition..!!!

His basic theme is hard to get....he went in many aspects of the all brain stuff.

What to do are you asking ?
now it is quite clear that we are schizophrenic ,which is to be divided from the reality , reality is facts, any fact, even simple ones....i am a liar is fact...
by refusing the end to exist is around my brain..and this is hurt...then i stay...not all the time...

then i become vulnerable , which i already was from very young...as many people.
oh that is great ?
No it is not ! but there is no choice...
my child brain has reach its own limits long ago , has kept the control , and is now defeated....time to grow up is it ?

what to do , say you ? or not...
To get one single chance to live , what not to do would be more accurate..??
Mentally disturb , can i leave my own insanity...?

it always come back to what i want as my guide line in life.
again is not it fine up to a point ?

a kind of permanent struggle seems to be what is going on...
i think it is good to reach "something ", i have been told by everyone since i got my first word...
But i don't like it , i don't care about all that , apart from dating times which i find first hand gift from mother nature...

At some stage , leaving childhood i turn on the calculating program for good...
and i want things to be as steady as it can be....ok....why not ?

Business, competition , are good i always was told...this is the only way to be happy.
Then i see some distant war happening somewhere.on TV....a country invades another one , usually the invader is the good one, the guy living in the place are called terrorists, am i going to buy that lie ? most people do buy that lie!! mass killing , rapes , destruction , stealing the wealth is one purpose..i see a link between business and war...but my life needs to be secure...all that is frightening...so i get more busy , more successful...

i have money , some security , but i still feel this weird oppression in my belly ....i want more...what is next ? i hear a guy who talks about enlightment , freedom , beyond fear...well sounds interesting doesn't ?

After material quest, i start another one....some kind of spiritual never ending happiness quest....
quest is common to both....quest means goal to reach...
and again why not ?

All that brings many thinking , but maybe not a single real change like the one i was hoping, i was hoping to get rid of this permanent discontentment ,which even my belly can feel...
and it is still there...
for me nothing happened until i realized that i was not at all interested in man's world in what it offers ,
since childhood... and i was refusing this peculiar aspect which is a deep strong feeling , which is a deep one : it includes to be fed up with my own disturbance , living permanently in me , as i can feel it , because i am used to have long moments where i do nothing , then i can feel it...

then one day the obvious knocked at the door : enough !

this is when i start my third life , the first part had been childhood mainly in nature and many kids in poverty by occidental criterion of nowadays...
well poverty was not felt as a kid...
the second part had been the struggling in which some insane people want us to be , to use others for their profit..yes the competitive world is entirely rigged...by those who created it...

i see for me , i can't tell for anyone else , i can't see any other way than to live the impermanence of life, permanently aware of this fact all the time...
i see normal brain can't.
and to stay with this impossibility will show if there is a beyond that way of living or not...

well dhirendra , take care of yourself...

discontentment shows the wrong way , as surely as the fire in Mount Doom destroyed the master ring !

Paul Davidson wrote:
Perhaps we need an uncivilisation.

Indeed. This is the new. This is what to do.

paul mohaddhib wrote:
i see for me , i can't tell for anyone else , i can't see any other way than to live the impermanence of life, permanently aware of this fact all the time... i see normal brain can't. and to stay with this impossibility will show if there is a beyond that way of living or not...

Yes. The need for permanency, that things go on stably forever, is born out of a sense of not being able to match the challenges of life. But if I know that I can meet any challenge of life then the impermanency is not such a daunting thing because I rest assured I can meet it at all times. Impermanency provides the necessary push to evolve, for else one would decay, wither and die. So it is a question of energy: to have the necessary energy to meet any challenge. The lack of energy is the root cause of the search for permanency.

This post was last updated by Elan J. Sun, 20 Feb 2011.

Hi Daniel

Nice to hear something from you.

I think K used some terms, like awareness, observation etc which were/are synonymous to realization/enlightenment/truth/insight.So when he say that when you are aware you can see fact, doesn't mean that awareness is step to seeing the truth.Awareness is truth itself.

I don't see any way which can make change possible.A thing(Nothing) beyond the reason!

Take care and be well.

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
What is his basic theme?

I got it this time I think Dhirendra!

K's basic theme was 'You'!

dhirendra singh wrote:
What to do or not do?

Well I think this question is arising because we have not listened, looked.Is there a separate doing from listening & looking?

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
if we are asking this question do you think we have to read more?

Hi Kapila

What have I missed from his teachings, will you mention please.

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
will you mention please.

Have we missed listening?

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Is there a separate doing from listening & looking?

Well, we cannot 'do' because that would require an entity to act, which is the illusion of the actor. As we are presently configured, life just happens.

Elan J. wrote:
But if I know that I can meet any challenge of life then the impermanency is not such a daunting thing because I rest assured I can meet it at all times. Impermanency provides the necessary push to evolve, for else one would decay, wither and die

The 'I' is impermanent but if it can convince itself of its ability to meet any challenge in life then it can rest, assured. Impermanency creates the necessary friction for the 'I' to adapt itself, otherwise it would decay, wither and die.

What are you waiting for?

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Well I think this question is arising because we have not listened, looked

Hi again,

What is listening/looking?

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
I don't see any way which can make change possible.A thing(Nothing) beyond the reason!

hello dhirendra....and elan...

yes, i don't either .
let me say this...
childish animal brain may remain childish animal brain...will get clever at being successful or not... to be a winner , the need for a lot to loose is the other side of the coin , of course.

But again it is a question to have capacity to stay with fact..oh! really ?
Saying that out of the blue right here is empty of any meaning.

Before i red anything i was naturally doing that( looking deeply at bothering facts,then solve one problem , not all the problems ) when 14 ish....it means the capacity is there , as i don't believe at all in anyone being special , we just fail to use what we have in us for some reasons .

My last child is 6 now..i call him : mini me !! and the forecasting of his end put me down to my knees ,it was impossible to deal with that , the animal brain in action , but even when i say : animal brain in action ! does not help at all , what can help here ,what can modified the hurt ? the pain of this life which is going to take the life of this child at some stage... is this a curse ? with no way out of it ?
i can't change the fact , i remain with the refusal...
here is the fact to stay with..

i could not take that into account , refusing it....this was just not possible for me, this is where i got lucky....
i was not capable to resist all that anymore , and this is a dodgy situation...impossible one and so i had only one single possibility left after many attempts: stay with it , which becomes possible all of a sudden because such a "doing" brings relief.
what do i mean by stay with it ?
i can't say precisely ,all what i know is that it implies that for once there is REALLY no hidden secret desire acting...

all that happens nearly instantly , like i stay ,see and relief happens..
Careful here , not entire relief of all problems for good ,but relief from one or more problem ...which creates a new situation in the mind , but i am going to fail again...
if once i reached the point where i learnt that drowning into the problems brings somehow relief , then i can do it again....until life is over...
yes i know i imply there is a doing , nearly a method.....a way , a path ...

See the point here,before i have been clever,i have analyzed, got much of brain functioning, but i remain the very same if not worse...
and then by doing "nothing " i encounter the relief....relief is peace , not the false peace after a war when all is destroyed , non ....immense peace...then i don't seek , i am aware of practical facts ..
but i will fail again , but a new situation is born.I have learnt to meet problems.

K said, we never ask impossible question..
well , what you have raised here is such an impossible question...how to bring a change ? i don't know....this is a start.

there is the life of surviving at any cost including lies , violence ,despair and the all shebang .
If i don't consciously want to get rid of sorrow , i just need to wait for a miracle....coming from some imaginary outside entity which will care for me..
a bit childish ? well i would buy that if it was working !!!

Again i say here for me there is the need to reach the limits of thinking capacities, of will , which is going for once to let it go , sorrow the catalyst will provide what is needed for this second birth..
what do i mean by limits of thinking ? when i don't have answer i reach some limit.
Then shall i leave the question as unsolved ?or take it and find out ?

the point so far in what i live is to "be" in the condition to live with facts...whatever they are....

At a practical level,to give some idea , i never accepted any authority but was deeply incline to cooperate on some programs only..this brought consequences like the refusal to stay as a soldier when army was compulsory., they had to sack me..
"classified "as too mentally disturb....
i took the fact like : i don't want to be a soldier , then i was refusing it..simple.

the refusal of anyone at me too , including big strong guy ...capable to smashed me with one hand...i never used physical violence , but was using the energy of anger created by the fact to be impose on by someone...so what i mean here is that to stay with facts , at any level , technical ,or non technical and personal only , personal/global too , implies immediate action or reaction.
yes reaction too.

It is like a bird which is leaving the nest for the first time...it is a pretty big event leaving some security for no security...it is leaving the already written scenario of what my life will/should be for some unwritten story...
in this total not known corner is where the "otherness " may or may not touch one person....

Up to the relief by staying with whatever is , i say i need and want so will act on it...now...the energy will come from the sorrow which i have to say is just unbearable and does not have a glimpse of meaning, so the intelligence which has awakened says : no suffering and will go into all that.
It maybe that i have no other choice...i bear this in mind.
Of course i can't say it is "the way" , i just can say : so far this is my perception which brings something new.

going beyond suffering was the buddha 3rd noble truth...nirvana is the understanding so going beyond suffering...
we have here a door to go through...it may be absolutely inevitable , but all that will disturb....when i just want a shelter..
The relief so the peace has more energy
than the craving =satisfaction=frustration=more cravings...this is going to make the difference.
not sure if it all make sense...writing is a peculiar way of communicating this ...not easy.

take care dhirendra...
.

discontentment shows the wrong way , as surely as the fire in Mount Doom destroyed the master ring !

This post was last updated by paul mohaddhib (account deleted) Sun, 20 Feb 2011.

paul mohaddhib wrote:
See the point here,before i have been clever,i have analyzed, got much of brain functioning, but i remain the very same if not worse... and then by doing "nothing " i encounter the relief....relief is peace , not the false peace after a war when all is destroyed , non ....immense peace...then i don't seek

Hi again

Thank you for reply.

I try to see the point, of doing nothing.Personally I am in this mode, of doing nothing.

Take care.:)

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
Thank you for reply.

I try to see the point, of doing nothing.Personally I am in this mode, of doing nothing..

dhirendra without going through suffering , nothing may never happen..
that would be great to avoid it, but it may be impossible..but i have not THE answer in this matter.

but if so the need to jump into it is obvious.

doing nothing means for me here : not using will and a goal to reach and so to look deeply...it is not a situation where all is turned off, but rather a situation where by using what hurts me , i am for once capable not to take my ideal world into account , into the picture...it implies another capacity usually asleep to enter into the picture.....

sometimes i wonder if it speaks, not too sure..
The writing is a difficult exercise....
when we will meet, you need to practice your talking english....LOL !
Dan.

discontentment shows the wrong way , as surely as the fire in Mount Doom destroyed the master ring !

This post was last updated by paul mohaddhib (account deleted) Sun, 20 Feb 2011.

dhirendra singh wrote:
I think K used some terms, like awareness, observation etc which were/are synonymous to realization/enlightenment/truth/insight.So when he say that when you are aware you can see fact, doesn't mean that awareness is step to seeing the truth.Awareness is truth itself.

not me again !!!!

well i read and read that , awareness is truth itself you say...
there is my thinking on one hand , and any facts on the other hand.
my thinking may contain some facts, especially about technics .

then the schizo brain enters into action (schizo from Greek ,meaning divided from the real ), and like when the flame burns my hand so i remove it, when the so called psychological hurt is at me, i remove ....wait what am i trying to remove ?
me , or the hurt , or both or ?

At this very moment the dividing schizo brain has done its setting job ,dividing so using psychologically the same process which may save the body from the flames.

After some careful examination , i see a link between my attempt to remove some facts from the scene( or run away from ) and the psychological hurt .

A superficial thinking , childish thinking as not succeeded to remove the fact i want to remove , and this has created pain which create more running away, more pain and so on.
then the need to forget or hide is very heavy...and this is from such a background that i am going to live a life.Then any secure plan will do , one main goal is deeply in charge : i want a shelter....please !!!!
and this will be in absolutely every doing....so life mainly becomes a quest for a shelter.

i guess that awareness is truth then , as to stick with that fact for example produces a change by bringing relief and something more i don't try to describe.

why does it bring relief ?
Because a problem needs to be solved , if it is not it stays alive, at a level beyond superficial consciousness , the brain is stuck with it , it never goes away unless it has been solved..
then we built up a huge amount of unsolved unknown problems ,this has the deadly capacity to paralyse the brain in some corner, with a fix idea to cling on to , like a hope.
So even the analytical brain has stopped functioning properly , smoothly in its own field and is stuck ..a bit like the gear box of a car which is broken...the car remains static so we do....
like the car needs a mechanic we do need one, and we are our own mechanic...

and i leave that..now...

Dan...

discontentment shows the wrong way , as surely as the fire in Mount Doom destroyed the master ring !

This post was last updated by paul mohaddhib (account deleted) Sun, 20 Feb 2011.

Paul Davidson wrote:
The 'I' is impermanent but if it can convince itself of its ability to meet any challenge in life then it can rest, assured. Impermanency creates the necessary friction for the 'I' to adapt itself, otherwise it would decay, wither and die.

That may be, although permanency is the non-fact. The fate of the psychological/fictional 'I' in this hypothetical situation is inconsequential. Impermanency being the fact, this is what one needs to deal with. The psychological/fictional 'I' may convince itself, that is fine. Ultimately it is the fate of the biological entity that matters. A healthy organism doesn't convince itself of anything. By virtue of its health, it welcomes challenges and readies itself for them. That is all. If the challenge is not faced adequately, it will die, else it live on.

paul mohaddhib wrote:
My last child is 6 now..i call him : mini me !! and the forecasting of his end put me down to my knees ,it was impossible to deal with that , the animal brain in action , but even when i say : animal brain in action ! does not help at all , what can help here ,what can modified the hurt ? the pain of this life which is going to take the life of this child at some stage... is this a curse ? with no way out of it ? i can't change the fact , i remain with the refusal... here is the fact to stay with.

Hi Paul,

Yes, the body is dying a little every single day, getting closer to its final end. As I see it, the consciousness of the parent is the starting point of the consciousness in his offsprings. If the parent grows in intelligence, so does the child. In that way, the fate of the child is tied to that of the parent, even more so than biologically. Of course, there may be a so-called mutation in consciousness at some point where the child questions the intelligence of his parents and goes beyond. This is evolution.

I am not sure what you mean by the animal brain. It seems negative, while for me this is quite the opposite. To me, wild animals are exactly the state of wholeness. And because we are not wild humans, we suffer. Of course, each species is whole in its own way, according to its own capacity and place in the ecosystem. Humans have certain unique capacities, especially in the brain and the resulting ability to make tools (physical and/or abstract), that creates complexities.

This post was last updated by Elan J. Mon, 21 Feb 2011.

dhirendra singh wrote:
What is listening/looking?

Well Dhirendra it's looking without the past interfering.

I am reminded of something K said.It's in 'On Conflict', page 88 I think.He was referring to those who go from teacher to teacher.He asks whether that is to be open.And he says it is a sieve with many holes!Nothing is retained! In the sense nothing is understood.I tried telling that to a person studying diverse gurus and let me tell you Dhirendra, I thought he was going to assault me!!

Now don't get hurt please. This is not an insult.Is this happening to us Dhirendra? What is the reason then? K once told somewhere about sharpening the instrument.That is the brain.I don't know where to find the quotation.But he said it.He said this instrument is not sharp enough and was talking about sharpening the instrument.Is that the reason?Is the brain simply blunt? He said to look at our habits.Release the energy wasted in habits.Do we have habits? That is things which we cannot be without? Addicted to something or other.It can be cricket or anything.Is it making the brain incapable of seeing? We do just anything and expect to understand when we read K? Is that possible? Without releasing the energy wasted in habits is understanding possible?The knife may be too blunt to cut.

What do you think Dhirendra? Have we done our home work or we don't want to because its too pleasurable and we don't want to be disturbed? Is it that? Or is it that we do not think habits make the brain dull?

Elan J. wrote:
I am not sure what you mean by the animal brain. It seems negative, while for me this is quite the opposite. To me, wild animals are exactly the state of wholeness.

hello...Elan..

yes the wild animal seem whole , if i was an Indian shaman i would say : under the protection , guidance of Mother Nature...

we are animals ,i guess , well in itself is it so important ?
i mean we are living creatures, with extended capacities when i compare, like the bird makes a nest so we do make a nest , bigger so this brain which compare says : we are fantastic !!!
then such a thought growing exponentially leads the world, one thought, one world....
And so what ? this brain is too war, violence ,destruction ,i may put some "good " mankind realization in the balance, but i see the whole picture and don't buy mankind activities at all...my state of mind.. for me we are clearly wrong and i am far from being the only one in this corner.

But i am wrong , well i insist to say i always refused , authority , so to impose , business, army , money, competition,value given to people, this world is not my world , i refuse it from quite young like 10 years old...neither the one of my girl friend, we have a natural talent for cooperation , and here too we are far from being the only ones, but here to focus more on brain activities i remain with the same inner problem of course , so i travel into the animal brain or analytical brain, or child brain, or...whatever name suits and see.
unless i am masochist and like suffering...i am going to do something..whatever is meant by do when i start the journey.
+ by experience i know the opening of what may be called the " other " brain , when it is open there is total relief , no seeking, but you may be interested i could say like you , i have become wild for some times so i myself too was under the protection and guidance of mother nature....
this is my main subject...to find somehow a way to re-open the other brain , which so far seems to be possible by some journey inside all the complexity of our own "mechanism" and i still maintain that sorrow is the tool for it , as a symptom and as a catalyst...
we have another function which can stay with impermanence...there is the meaning , i just know....as dhirendra often says : how to do it ?

remain the animal brain which sees life through its set up program...if i take a plane and can see huge cities , i see this brain...if i watch an engine, a computer i see it too...if i see war too, computer too , space ships, TV, science, modern medicine , big pharma , pollution , the destruction of species and so on...
and so what.???

still proud at the surface , we say : we are just incredible!
are we aware that this thought comes from a little set up program..?
that it is a mechanical reaction ?

..when not caught in some fantasy like organized religions ,we crave for wealth , possession and so on...but when nothing apparently goes on , it is not much better...at least the gossiping will provide some activities....all activities put me as the man who knows , who is right, when the entire universe is turning around my little person, you multiply that by 6 billions and we have our world...
the animal brain is seeking ,is escaping , is craving for permanent activities...mechanically..
I say man is schizophrenic, the all species is schizophrenic, divided from reality in Greek ...
this is my subject....the pain, the never ending need to achieve all that brings so huge discontentment , when i firmly decided as a wild animal could you say , not to accept all that...will i succeed ? i just don't know and will not , such a question is already wrong !!and so on...

this is as simple as in the matrix...
take the movie, the zionist vision of the world by the way , all caught in the matrix apart from some exceptions ,it is a program, and the program thinks program according to its limits...
and the seeking for something , so the craving remains the main source to get up in the morning, millions of people are so depressed of all that ,that they can't take the life...

anyone with some talent he has nothing to do with , says : i am better so i deserve more, then we have this world....and some seek enlightment, spiritual quest is born ...some seek huge money, are never ever satisfied ...
this is pure insanity , one first step is to feel it, it is so thick that it can be touched...

then i may start differently , but if i am not capable to be disturb, there never will be some inner discovery , but still the same craving for a shelter.

what if such a shelter is just a dream, nothing else..
but i have to get the kids ready for school, i need to leave for now...

take care .
Dan

discontentment shows the wrong way , as surely as the fire in Mount Doom destroyed the master ring !

This post was last updated by paul mohaddhib (account deleted) Mon, 21 Feb 2011.

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
it's looking without the past interfering.

So, is it possible for us to look without past? Every attempt is thought, every decision to look is thought.

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Now don't get hurt please

It is impossible thing for me to get hurt on k forums, just impossible, so don't worry, never.

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Is the brain simply blunt?

I think you are taking the teaching as practice and improvement.First making brain sharp and then it will conceive the understanding,It is wrong interpretation of teaching.According to K you start from freedom, it is not like this that by doing this or that you reach to freedom or change.

If we can't start from freedom, then our all sharpening is of no use.

And fact is, we can't start from freedom.I don't know If I conveyed it.

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Mon, 21 Feb 2011.

paul mohaddhib wrote:
So even the analytical brain has stopped functioning properly , smoothly in its own field and is stuck ..a bit like the gear box of a car which is broken...the car remains static so we do.... like the car needs a mechanic we do need one, and we are our own mechanic...

Hi Dan

Yes, we are our mechanic, but mostly untrained, so rather repairing gear box we remove clutch plate, then break drums and so on:) just joking!

Dan, analytic brain is a gift, and I think it's highest quality is, that it can know it's limitation, it can know that it can't know anything which is not thought/sensory things.Now is it full stop to analytic brain in other field?

As K said somewhere, thought itself must deny itself.Probably It's the only thing which a thought can do, but I doubt if it ever do this.

Be well.

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
Yes, we are our mechanic, but mostly untrained, so rather repairing gear box we remove clutch plate, then break drums and so on:) just joking!

yes, my case...too..not to forget the fuel of course !

dhirendra singh wrote:
Dan, analytic brain is a gift, and I think it's highest quality is, that it can know it's limitation

i say so , then why is it interesting to know limitations ?
at first i can't say this is wrong or not.. when myself i have seen than when it reaches limitations, then it gets more cuckoo than before when it feels ok, then i am careful of course...

we can see that even in its field which is technical purpose from lit the fire of course to much more, science and bla bla bla...there are huge problems , as violence is in life, 2 people meet thinking how am i going to cheat you ? depressing time is around too, and all negatives aspect you know of course..culminating in wars so mass murders...

i don't think it is possible to start a journey on analytical brain kind of awareness without watching the all world as it is...not on purpose but it includes that too.
awareness is awareness and takes any subject..on board !

i agree with you about it can know its limitation...not casually .
Not by going to college ,

dhirendra singh wrote:
Now is it full stop to analytic brain in other field?

i say yes , but it is always turned on , and as you say down below

dhirendra singh wrote:
As K said somewhere, thought itself must deny itself.Probably It's the only thing which a thought can do, but I doubt if it ever do this.

yes...
what i know by experience , tells this : the pain which bothers me , if i have enough awareness of it , so if i have not found a way to run away far enough from it, if it is at me is definitively here to help...and this i know and again and again it is helping , yes but to do what?

put with my words, to open another capacity within analytical brain ,or in what i call so far the other brain, this point i am not sure about one or the other and don't try to know as it works anyway .

the ultimate limit to recognize it is a bit dumb and a pain creator in some fields , then accepting not to trust itself.
is it possible to avoid pain to open that and go beyond if there is such a thing ?
for my life . no ...it is there , so no guessing questions.

When the analytical brain said : enough of all that, is a moment when it leaves the leadership and accept to be in total insecurity as it does not know what is going to happen, and even if something is going to happen....
facing this not known is for me my limits, and by experience i see some happening which seems to be born out of the blue, is intense but short, says ,talks,shows ...this is a point where i don't know more about it, well it happened some insights to use k word .unexpected and involuntary

The tendency of analyses is to come back in total control , as a need to work on anything, it is a machine set up for it....no freedom in such a life , but routine and no meaning and analysing goes back to its normal job .
when is seen even vaguely the truth/fact of the limits of analytical process and how it is the creator of pain it is there to be used if needed

I see more a permanent type of knowing what is going on.
then for me my job in life is not to suffer which implies deep knowledge of all that of course...and to survive physically of courseand it is from this no suffering which brings a different state of the mind that i am going to live, not from escape and pain , and fear and all that....

So far i say like those native Indian , ( i met one of their shaman) would say about mother nature and the dreams and all that ,mother nature talks, says , indicate,take care and so on.

we need to admit the wrong way and i still insist to say 100 % wrong , because a normal life misses the blessing point of all that matter of being part of mother nature..whatever the nature of mother nature is.....
shall i stop it now ? yes ..

enjoy the day dhirendra.

Dan.....baldy eagle feather....

discontentment shows the wrong way , as surely as the fire in Mount Doom destroyed the master ring !

This post was last updated by paul mohaddhib (account deleted) Mon, 21 Feb 2011.

and then what..somehow i/we got a little clue about sorrow in the staying with it of my/our own manner.
it has brought something..new....
Is that all ?
Well less bothering stuff is now seen ,perceive and i may be able to look at, as i develop an allergy to a bothering life, i want a good life, no suffering....but not by projecting my own ideal any more ,sort of the words don't tell enough,,just an idea...

what is perceived is some less bothering/painful stuff than sorrow like this one with this craving to do anything for no reason and many other disturbances , you know this no capacity to stay still...which maybe annoying ...
all that always goes in one kind of direction ....

Dan.

discontentment shows the wrong way , as surely as the fire in Mount Doom destroyed the master ring !

Dear Dhirendra,

'Well, we have read K, and we have a sufficient knowledge of his sayings.Now what to do?

m: Knowledge of his teaching, as mere knowledge, is of course already conditioned/dead, right?

Now, when asking 'what to do', isn't this another question coming from the same knowledge/conditioning?

Listen to that question again. "What to do or not do?" -With regards to what, about what, Dhirendra? Can you see how the question is already carrying the seed of duality, thought, in itself?

Can it be seen there is nothing there real in the first place to do or not do something about, as far as conditioned knowledge is concerned?

Mina Martini wrote:
Can it be seen there is nothing there real in the first place to do or not do something about, as far as conditioned knowledge is concerned?

Hi friend

Nothing to do at all.Am I conditioned? Then will i remain so? Or can I change?Or no change?

I don't know

paul mohaddhib wrote:
we need to admit the wrong way and i still insist to say 100 % wrong , because a normal life misses the blessing point of all that matter of being part of mother nature..whatever the nature of mother nature is..

Hi Dan

In me, I am still in wrong turn.Don't know what is right turn, or no turn.my life is insane.I live wrongly.I don't feel burning need of change, of ending the `wrong turn.

I think I am finished, can't help humanity.Here it is midnight, and it is dark midnight in me.

This is the way I am.

Take care, Dan the man, be well

I don't know

dhirendra singh wrote:
Nothing to do at all.Am I conditioned? Then will i remain so? Or can I change?Or no change?

I do not know just what it is that I am like. I wander about concealed and wrapped in thought. When the first born of Order came to me, I won a share of this speech.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK