Please post messages here that address the self in any of its flavors: ego, "I", essential self, soul (or lack of same), etc.

the 'self' can be explained as a constellation of ephemeral and ever-changing factors: our physical body, our dna, our conditioning, our sensory perceptions, our emotions, our mental constructs.

i wonder if there is an 'essential self' that lies beyond these factors? is anyone home? or is a human life just a set of overlapping programs playing themselves out?

How long have you been pondering about the self? I started doing this when I asked myself, "how come there is a 'me'?" at the age of ten.

i came late to the game on this one. for all the typical reasons (tough childhood, overly strong mama, absent papa) i became very self-centered at an early age, my 'self' was all i could rely on to get me through intact, so to question its existence would have been like staring the Abyss right in the face. i probably would have broken down into little bits of psycho-protoplasmic flotsam. (i'm melting ...!)

only recently (within the last few years) have i been able to (somewhat) calmly and dispassionately consider the nature of my self. and when things start to unravel, as they are wont to do when one looks hard into what constitutes a self, i still sometimes get freaked out. but 'the Truth shall set me free' ... at least i sure HOPE so! ;-)

You are already free, just negate the hope.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

Keshni Sahni wrote:

You are already free, just negate the hope.

yes. i see that. but my seeing is mostly in the head, theoretical. i only catch glimpses of it directly, experientially. the path of negation of ill/de-lusion, which is one of the main aspects of krishnamurti's path (along with buddhism, hinduism, etc.) is a challenging one for me. for everyone, i think. some things are relatively easy to let go of, negate; others are extraordinarily difficult.

"i dont think... therefore i am not" - 3rd Millenium Maxim by Anonymous

Health care is everyone's job, not just in treating illness but in promoting healthy living. We must take personal responsibility, engaging our minds and hands in meaningful work - all essential components of healthy, secure lifestyles and communities.

rachMiel ... wrote:
only recently (within the last few years) have i been able to (somewhat) calmly and dispassionately consider the nature of my self. and when things start to unravel, as they are wont to do when one looks hard into what constitutes a self, i still sometimes get freaked out. but 'the Truth shall set me free' ... at least i sure HOPE so! ;-)

So, only recently you have felt confident enough to inquire, to open the black box and peer inside. Scary and yet fun. Especially when we are doing it together. And doing it together, it won't be as scary. Yes?

I am curious. Why do you want to look into that "black box"? If the "self", you relied on, got you through intact, why didn't you keep going? What caused you to inquire?

(If my questions are too invasive, please let me know. I don't mean to pry.)

The power of disappointing them, it
was true, must always be her's. But
that was not enough; for when people
are determined on a mode of conduct
which they know to be wrong, they feel
injured by the expectation of any
thing better from them. - Jane Austen

Health care is everyone's job, not just in treating illness but in promoting healthy living. We must take personal responsibility, engaging our minds and hands in meaningful work - all essential components of healthy, secure lifestyles and communities.

Yiming Zhang wrote:

So, only recently you have felt confident enough to inquire, to open the black box and peer inside. Scary and yet fun. Especially when we are doing it together. And doing it together, it won't be as scary. Yes?

yes. scary fun. watch ME unravel. ;-) having support/companions is a joy.

Yiming Zhang wrote:

I am curious. Why do you want to look into that "black box"? If the "self", you relied on, got you through intact, why didn't you keep going? What caused you to inquire?

two things. 1. being relatively 'intact' eventually got kinda boring and sad; i wanted more. 2. i reached a point of desperation in my personal psycho-emotional life; something was obviously very awry. so i started reading eastern philosophy, which is where i first encountered exploration of the ego/self.

so, friends, i'd love to get your personal responses to this question, which seems central to me in an exploration of self:

what we regard as our 'self' is to a large extent (perhaps completely) a set of changing, interacting fictional storylines; our personal hi-stories. is there any self 'essence' that is beyond these storylines, that is ... REAL?

rachMiel ... wrote:
two things. 1. being relatively 'intact' eventually got kinda boring and sad; i wanted more. 2. i reached a point of desperation in my personal psycho-emotional life; something was obviously very awry. so i started reading eastern philosophy, which is where i first encountered exploration of the ego/self.

So, you got bored about being mother/wife/whatever and living successfully day after day being that. This remind me of that movie called "Bridges of Madison County" starring Meryl Streep and Clint Eastwood. Were you bored like that Meryl character (Franscesca) whose life was 'intact' ?

What was that something that was 'obviously very awry'? Maybe 'the self essence that is REAL' is hidden somewhere in the 'personal hi-stories'. You want to dig into it? I have a hunch that it is in there somewhere.

Yiming Zhang wrote:

rachMiel ... wrote:
two things. 1. being relatively 'intact' eventually got kinda boring and sad; i wanted more. 2. i reached a point of desperation in my personal psycho-emotional life; something was obviously very awry. so i started reading eastern philosophy, which is where i first encountered exploration of the ego/self.

So, you got bored about being mother/wife/whatever and living successfully day after day being that. This remind me of that movie called "Bridges of Madison County" starring Meryl Streep and Clint Eastwood. Were you bored like that Meryl character (Franscesca) whose life was 'intact' ?

if i were a woman it might be fabulous to be meryl streep, but i'm a dude, dude. ;-) rachMiel is the yiddish form of richard. i didn't see bridges (too chick flick for me; i like explosions and monsters) so i can't compare my ennui/despair to hers. let's just say i painted myself into a corner and eventually started to feel ... cornered.

What was that something that was 'obviously very awry'? Maybe 'the self essence that is REAL' is hidden somewhere in the 'personal hi-stories'. You want to dig into it? I have a hunch that it is in there somewhere.

i don't know what went awry. but i was aware of the process (of going awry).

sure i'd like to dig into it. but i'd need your help; can't seem to make much progress on my own.

rachMiel ... wrote:
i wonder if there is an 'essential self' that lies beyond these factors? is anyone home? or is a human life just a set of overlapping programs playing themselves out?

I would go along with just a set of overlapping
programs playing themselves out, giving us the illusion of being.
This definition lack style but I have to admit sound very real to me.
So far to me the next step after understanding self would be composite mind.
Your question is, is there some thing in between the overlapping
programs and composite mind? Like a real self?

I know that for an artist there is inspiration, this could be the reconstruction
of many different piece seen and put together, put I would also agree that there is
such thing as inspiration, as a original idea, which has to come from the unitness
of someone. Am I following you?

True experimenting consists in understanding through our own alert watchfulness,

"An artist's only concern is to shoot
for some kind of perfection, and on
his own terms, not anyone else's."
- J.D. Salinger, Franny and Zooey

Health care is everyone's job, not just in treating illness but in promoting healthy living. We must take personal responsibility, engaging our minds and hands in meaningful work - all essential components of healthy, secure lifestyles and communities.

jean-m: ... to me the next step after understanding self would be composite mind.

jean-m, could you please explain what you mean by 'composite mind?' thanks. :-)