Please post messages here that address the issue of choosing a 'spiritual' path.

This post was last updated by rachMiel ... Mon, 15 Jun 2009.

i believe that, for most people, choosing a path is a necessary step in moving towards seeing the Truth. this is especially so with beginners; and the way i see it we're all (more or less) beginners. :-) without a solid path, lostness, stuckness, even paralysis can occur all too easily.

my guess is that all valid paths eventually lead to the kind of pathless/effortless-ness that krishnamurti spoke of. so the notion of choosing a path is not a condemnation of krishnamurti's pathlessness, rather: a 'jump start' to help us mortals get moving towards this pathlessness.

What do you mean by a path? Can you clarify?

yiming! :-) always good to have you around, existential doppelganger. ;-)

path. yeah ... good question. one uses these terms without much reflection on what one is actually, concretely talking about.

so what do i mean when i say path ... ? (thinking aloud here.)

well, anything you do feels like a path in hindsight, yes? you're utterly lost, groping, stumbling into obstacles, taking wrong turns, freezing up. a year later you look back and say: aha! that was my path, a painful and inelegant groping towards whatever state you happen to be in currently.

but that's kind of a cheat, and probably not what i mean when i use the term path. (again: thinking aloud, which seems appropriate for this 'personal take' forum.)

so what do i mean when i say: path?

it's a bit of a leap of faith, or perhaps more accurately: a suspension of dis-belief. one chooses to accept, for a trial period at least, the promises (overt, subtle) of a specific methodology (or, for eclectics like me, a mix of methodologies) and to behave (meditate, pray, reflect, read, etc.) in accordance with that methodology.

time/expectation/anticipation are all brought into the equation. the hope of 'becoming' something different/better. all of us krishnamurti students know the flagrant dangers of this kind of equation. but ... again ... my intuition is that the path itself unravels and the following of it becomes effortless at some point.

Rachmiel, Physical time is necessary for change. Krishnamurti negated paths that are imaginary. It is just a semantics problem. I clearly see what you are saying here.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

Keshni Sahni wrote:

Krishnamurti negated paths that are imaginary. It is just a semantics problem.

keshni: could you please talk a little more about this? i'm not sure i understand.

time/expectation/anticipation are all brought into the equation. the hope of 'becoming' something different/better. all of us krishnamurti students know the flagrant dangers of this kind of equation. but ... again ... my intuition is that the path itself unravels and the following of it becomes effortless at some point.

Becoming something better seems to suggest discontent with the status quo. If this is true in your case, then I share this state of discontent. It is this feeling of discontent, a feeling of unhappiness or emptiness within or despair with the state of our world without, that makes us seek something different/better.

Are we on the same page, rachMiel? Am I saying something that you feel too? If not, then tell me what makes you hope of becoming something different/better.

Yiming Zhang wrote:

... tell me what makes you hope of becoming something different/better.

i'm a pleasure bunny and a truth seeker, in about equal measure.

pleasure bunny wants pleasure, (en)joy(ment), happiness ALL THE TIME. my 'hope' (desire to become) is to move towards 24/7 pleasure/joy/happiness.

truth seeker wants to know and LIVE IN the Truth. my 'hope' is to move towards this.

note that pleasure bunny and truth seeker do not always play well together. ;-)

rachMiel ... wrote:
pleasure bunny wants pleasure, (en)joy(ment), happiness ALL THE TIME. my 'hope' (desire to become) is to move towards 24/7 pleasure/joy/happiness.
truth seeker wants to know and LIVE IN the Truth. my 'hope' is to move towards this.

Wanting pleasure is the same as avoiding pain. If you look at our lives as human beings, there is this constant running away from depression. We do this through a craving for stimulation - either physical or mental. We call this stimulation happiness or joy or pleasure and it invariably requires effort and cost money.

Writing like this to you is meditation and it gives me much pleasure (otherwise, I wouldn't be doing it). Am I stimulating myself? I wonder.

What do you think? Actually, I am alluding to the fact that it is unhappiness, a state of insecurity or depression that comes with being a person, that drives us on a path to becoming better, to find permanent ground, to find ultimate reality/truth. If you don't agree, then tell me how you see it.

Yiming Zhang wrote:

... it is unhappiness, a state of insecurity or depression that comes with being a person, that drives us on a path to becoming better, to find permanent ground, to find ultimate reality/truth.

that's how it seems to work for me. when i'm cow content, i might play at 'self' transformation, but basically i just want to keep happily grazing.