Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

QOTD for August 10th


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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #1
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2045 posts in this forum Offline

"If the mind would understand reality, it must become wholly unburdened, fresh and uninfluenced. That is, you must become fully conscious, fully aware of the subtle influence of vested interests on the one hand, which I have explained as environmental, and on the other of that inward compulsion based on acquisitive and self-protective fear and memory. When you begin to be aware, when you begin to perceive that influence or authority in any form, gross or subtle. must pervert thought, then the mind, in freeing itself from its limitations, is capable of true discernment. For the action of authority, based fundamentally on self-protective desire, must ever increase stupidity and its illusions, destroying creative action, till gradually the individual is nothing but automatic reactions. When the individual consciously understands the deep significance of authority, when the mind is completely naked, creatively empty, then there is bliss." (K)

I'm going to leave this alone for now and await your comments, if any.

Let it Be

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Fri, 11 Aug 2017 #2
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3847 posts in this forum Offline

I'm wondering if you have any particular questions about this extract, Tom.

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Sat, 12 Aug 2017 #3
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2045 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
I'm wondering if you have any particular questions about this extract, Tom.

I have a question here: "you must become fully conscious, fully aware of the subtle influence of vested interests on the one hand, which I have explained as environmental, and on the other of that inward compulsion based on acquisitive and self-protective fear and memory. When you begin to be aware, when you begin to perceive that influence or authority in any form, gross or subtle. must pervert thought, then the mind, "

I understand the environmental influences somewhat, but that phrase that follows 'inward compulsion' is not totally clear. What does he mean by "acquisitive and self-protective fear and memory"? "Aquisitive fear"?

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sat, 12 Aug 2017.

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Sat, 12 Aug 2017 #4
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3847 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
What does he mean by "acquisitive and self-protective fear and memory"? "Aquisitive fear"?

I think it is understood well enough on this forum that there is no authority to interpret Krishnamurti's words. No assumption that some person knows and we do not know, no perception that some person is “an expert” in understanding. And this extends beyond the forum – we cannot assume there is anyone who knows absolutely what K “really meant”. This I think is an essential part of K's teaching – we have to understand for ourselves, there is in fact no other understanding.

Excuse me Tom, if the above sounds like preaching, it is not, just a bit of reflection, and emphasising that although I might venture to give - very tentatively – my interpretation of K's words, it IS very tentative, there are no conclusions, and one is always open to re-evaluating. So with all that preamble :-) …...

Looking at the phrase you are focusing on, I am reminded that K is not always precise in his phrasing. Sometimes his sentences get a bit jumbled up. He makes several different starts at finding the right phrase. I say this as one who used to do some transcribing of his talks, when it is necessary to listen to his words over and over again, including the half-uttered ones. So frankly, I would not put too much importance on the exact arrangement of these words. For me, he is talking about three facets of the mind, its fear, its strongly acquisitive movement, and its self protective habit - all of which are distorting, making it difficult to see ourselves as we are, clearly. And he is saying we have to be aware of these distortions.

Adding the obligatory “I could be wrong” :-)

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Sat, 12 Aug 2017 #5
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2045 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
No assumption that some person knows and we do not know, no perception that some person is “an expert” in understanding.

It's not a matter of expecting someone to be an expert, Clive. I was simply looking for some input on what K's words might actually be pointing to, as they were kind of confusing to me. As you yourself noticed, K's wording CAN at times be confusing.

Clive Elwell wrote:
So frankly, I would not put too much importance on the exact arrangement of these words.

Thanks for pointing that out. Will look this paragraph of his over again with what you wrote in mind.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sat, 12 Aug 2017.

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Mon, 14 Aug 2017 #6
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3847 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
It's not a matter of expecting someone to be an expert, Clive.

Sorry Tom, my words were not pointed at you, I was just indulging in some general reflecting.

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