Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening

Thérèse Doyle Okamoto - Personal Profile


Thérèse Doyle Okamoto
Thérèse Doyle Okamoto
United States
Url: http://jkrishnamurti.ning.com/profile/ThereseOkamoto
Member since: Sat, 13 Jun 2009, 1:48am
Last visited 2 months ago

Member Statement

Is psychological thought the enemy and technological thought a practicality? i am always worried when something is broken down to the last duality, it's that last first step that JK spoke of i think. can we integrate the psyche with the tech somehow once and for all? The thread goes off on the dichotomy of spontaneous and conditioned thought which seems to open up the duality of thought into quadrants with a lot of overlap

it seems to me that feelings are not automatically ego driven, there is probably a simple survival logic to the reptilian brain which would be unconditioned, totally spontaneous and also evolutionary genetic predisposition, all of which over simplify things until impulses like self hatred turn into wars, so bad idea, definitely the enemy, so we can see where feelings get a bad rep but is it deserved?

i do feel strongly that the motion of our intelligence is expressed in a highly technical way through the psyche so that feelings have a sophisticated logic beyond survival. Using your examples of the bank and the break-up, it seems a bit dismissive of the role of the thought between people, those coming from the banker and the ex-mate which weigh in strongly upon the individual involved with them. There is the extremely logical fact of cueing the dynamic for a fairly aware individual. It seems important to stress how it is we know that there is not only the monkey, what is going on between the monkey and the cat, and the dog, or the horse, or all the rest of us, which is to say human action is fraught with many style personalitys and as you say we cannot possibly limit ourselves to the technical as doing so would take all the poetry out of it and then where would we be?

Living is an art. The mind has gained intelligence of people and all the experience we have with each individual, and the psyche intuitively, unasked for, puts it all together logically spontaneously in the form of feelings. We sense when someone is deliberately hurting us or when they're being nickled&dimed by the bank as much as we are. We may or may not feel confident that our judgment in these matters is correct. We know it is largely guesswork but we even feel the feeling of confidence is reliable, and that we are relatively more or less sure of who we trust for example, or who loves us back, et cetera.... always keeping in mind that we should probably refer to the technical question "How am I completely wrong about this?" just to know what we have gotten ourselves into... i have always been impressed with your confidence Patsy

the art of thought, to my mind is less to distinguish between our human nature and our common sense. Feelings, lets face it, inform what we actually do whereas our technical thinking, as a practical matter, allows us to function in our day-to-day existence, knowing all the while that this kind of thinking is never sufficient to free us from the suspicion that there is a pervading poetry (silent noise?) We, as poets, feel that Life is actually worthwhile not in spite of our selves but because the psyche is never really satisfied until it is the poem, the whole poem and nothing but the poem and how often does that happen?

i would say of meditation, it is the state of being the poem, when the whole comes together, i have thought that it is maybe not so much that we lose our center as that we realize we're all in the center together

so there is thought, the passive thoughts that arise unasked for, seemingly from nowhere until we find they can usually be placed, which is to say, we know why we happened to think of it, and then there are the ones that really do come out of nowhere and we have to do a little work to figure out the parapraxis, but it's there too, and we learn that the mind as psyche is a finely tuned instrument and incredibly reliable when it comes to spontanity howsoever attached to genetic predisposition or conditioning

and then there is thinking, which is deliberate and intentional, creative brainstorming, and calculating, data analysis and figuring out.

so psychological thought is definitely not the enemy, because without it the musician would be a machine and the doctor would be a robot, and technical thought is definitely not the enemy because without it the poet would be a lawyer and the engineer would be a failure so... anyway

im stopping now and i know i ought to edit but well, i got this far with that and i hope you appreciate it ... i wonder what kind of thinking philosophy is

EXPERIMENTER'S CORNER had no experiments. Nada. Zip. Zilch. So I started one. Without even a personal message it was ad hoc deleted. I inquired into the status of my experiment. Then, because I did not understand why the experiment FAILED just because it was incomplete. I asked to have it restored to me. My request was ignored. My summation of the experiment, as follows, was also deleted, interestingly it was not only deleted from the forum but linked to my history and removed from my entire collection of postings, which makes the whole thing somewhat creepy, though its just a feeling... :

Interests and Recommendations

Books

The Enchanted Castle Daisy Nesbit The Divine Secrets of the YaYa Sisterhood. Rebecca Wells

Movies

A Room With A View, Sense & Sensibility, Almost Famous, Searching For Bobby Fischer, Hurricane

Music

Where is the Love? BlackEyedPeace

Other interests

gardening, golfing, reading, fabric i make pods which is a wreath without flowers

Interview Answers

Can dialogue - in the sense of sincere inquiry - be organized or can it only come about spontaneously, unprompted?

the mind is organized

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Do you think Krishnamurti was exceptional, or is the transformation he spoke of universally accessible?

absolutely universally accessible

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Do you think it is possible to make Krishnamurti more "practicable" than what he himself seems to have allowed for?

There is someone even more pragmatic than our Krishnaji? Name them!

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How important do you consider group dialogue to be in understanding the more subtle points of Krishnamurti's message?

if you don't understand sledgehammer then i guess it might suggest something that might turn out to be helpful eventually

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Are there any aspects of Krishnamurti's teaching that you find implausible or difficult to accept?

yes

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If you had to sum up what Krishnamurti is all about in just a few words of your own, what would they be?

know thyself

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Do you ever feel that you have been conditioned by Krishnamurti's teachings?

no

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How do you personally go about exploring the Krishnamurti's teachings (through personal study, dialogues, dvds)?

i am not an explorer

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Has coming into contact with Krishnamurti and his teachings had any perceptible effect on your life and/or relationships?

possibly

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Does the phrase "living the teachings" have any meaning to you?

yes it means that you haven't learned

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Do you think it advisable to introduce Krishnamurti to people you know? Have you ever done it and if yes, what are your experiences?

in the movie where Denzel Washington plays Hurricane Carter in one scene he is reading The Awakening of Intelligence, sharing this movie is my favorite way of sharing JK. It is the book that I bought when I went to his home.

Intelligence is being awakened by leaps&bounds in TheComputerAge. People are changing and finding out for themselves.

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What future do you foresee for Krishnamurti's works? Do you think they will grow in importance or will they just gradually die away?

he has a strong place among the 20thCenturyPHILOSOPHERs having rejected gurus. I believe he will stand among the the early Logicians and the French but i really don't know if he will get any recognition for his empiricalBreakTHROUGH observing that logic is insufficient when nobody learns it, and a system is senseless if it is illogical.

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How do you strike a balance between healthy doubt and ready acceptance in investigating Krishnamurti's proposals?

i don't investigate them, i take them at faceValue

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