Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Alanna E's Forum Activity | 8 posts in 2 forums

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Forum: General Discussion Sat, 06 Mar 2010
Topic: Can you live in society without conditioning?

Do you think that it is possible to live in society, to interact and communicate with others, if you are not conditioned?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 07 Mar 2010
Topic: Can you live in society without conditioning?

Randal Shacklett wrote:

Everyone is conditioned/programmed. Can one act sanely, in spite of condition, might be a better question.

Yes, I think that's a very good question! I could ask, Is it possible to live without conditioning?, but I think that it is really not possible for the self to not be conditioned and therefore anything outside of conditioning would probably be outside the realm of thought, of self. I don't know. But I think that is a great question, whether we can live simply and sanely in spite of being conditioned, if it is indeed the case that the self cannot shake off the very conditioning that appears to constitute it.

Ah, I just confuse myself. I am very glad to have read these responses though. David Louks, your great reply made a lot of things much clearer for me, so I thank you sincerely!

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 07 Mar 2010

Chafia Abdi wrote: Hello there If I may intervene, Isn't thought the activity of the self. I can not stop thinking, I can watch thinking and observe it.

Hello! I think that is a really good statement. I can observe thinking, but I do not think that I am divisible from thought; I am the thought that I am watching. I think Krishnamurti spoke about this - the "observer is the observed".

I think Krishnamurti's basic teaching is about letting go of time and living in the "now". But I am quite silly so maybe I have missed the point. It will be interesting to hear what others have to say.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 09 Mar 2010
Topic: Can you live in society without conditioning?

Randal Shacklett wrote: The self and conditioning, are not two seperate phenomenon, so no, it isn't possible.

Yes, exactly.

There seems to be a certain degree of hostility in this thread, unless I have misinterpreted it. I am sorry if I have caused annoyance in whatever way by having started and contributed to the topic.

I hope everyone is well. :)

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 10 Mar 2010
Topic: Can you live in society without conditioning?

I see that I am conditioned. I can practice the pretence of dropping out of society by removing myself to the wilderness to live like Thoreau or retiring into uninterrupted solitude like a hermit, but as society is inseparate from myself, is within me, to do this with the purpose of leaving it behind is fruitless. The fear that conditioning arises out of is still there, the fear of the idea of death that makes me try to boulster the self with every action and word, always defending and building it up against potential termination, unspeakably terrified of 'letting go' in any way.

Perhaps the initial question of whether we can or cannot live in society without conditioning is silly. I am not even sure what I meant by it. Krishnamurti said, "I am talking of an aloneness, in which the mind is totally free from the past, and only such a mind is virtuous, for only in this aloneness is there innocence. Perhaps you will say, "That is too much to ask. One cannot live like that in this chaotic world, where one has to go to the office every day, earn a livelihood, bear children, endure the nagging of one's wife or husband, and all the rest of it." But I think what is being said is directly related to everyday life and action; otherwise, it has no value at all", and that is what prompted me to ask, out of curiousity as to people's responses.

It may have been better to ask if it is really possible to live in society with complete constant attention so that we see the conditioned mind at work; asking if we can live in society without being conditioned is probably a bit crazy, considering we can hardly know what not being conditioned actually is. It is sort of like trying to see what it is like outside of a windowless room without wanting to open the door.

And now I'd better stop rambling before I confuse this addled head of mine even more. Sorry this is so long!

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 11 Mar 2010
Topic: Can you live in society without conditioning?

dhirendra singh wrote: Personally, I read and reply here for an interesting entertainment like actitivity, I am not a bit hopping for any enlightenment through this.

Thank you for the reply! I agree very much.


A bird, instinctively, builds a nest. It doesn't have an emotional attachment to the nest; it doesn't have an image of what the nest was yesterday or of what it will be in the future; it doesn't say, This is my nest that I have created, or judge the nest as good or bad, or think that it is a very superior bird for having made something so fine. At least, this is how it appears to me. I have felt that, in nature, there is no place for artificial, psychological time. Just sitting outside for a few hours and watching the doves come and go, eating seed, with such unhurriedness, you can really see this. But we're always looking for the nearest distraction because we're scared of being still, and if we built something as a bird constructs a nest we would identify with it and see an image of it belonging to time. The animal can do something mechanical like build a nest without there being any psychology involved; it is in the present; can't we do the same? I don't think of conditioning when I think of doing something physical, practical, like knowing how to walk or hammer a nail. It's when I have an image surrounding these acts that I feel conditioning comes into play.

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