Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Jack Pine's Forum Activity | 5792 posts in 2 forums


Forum: General Discussion Thu, 03 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: : Our whole civilization is based on hierarchical comparison both outwardly and inwardly which denies the sense of deep affection.

You quoting K about comparisons doesn't mean anything. It doesn't prove, for example, that someone on here is comparing anything. It's just something you pulled out of your rather paranoid thinking and are accusing others of doing it.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 04 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: To whom? It was surely not meant to mean anything to Jack pine who insists on not changing his rude and vulgar behavior.

You know, instead of constantly whining about what you think other people are doing wrong why don't you just look at yourself? A person can't do anything about what others do but they can understand themselves and correct their own confusion and misunderstanding.

You know when you look at it, you are actually the one who is like Trump. You, like Donald, are always complaining about what others are doing but you never offer any proof of your accusations. You never look at your own short-comings. Why don't you try understanding yourself first?

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 05 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: It is odd after so many years still thinking in term of the thinker! The thinker is an illusion. K says that. But who studies krishnamurti? No one in here!(all ego driven)

You have no idea of what a complete hypocrite you are do you? Everything you post on here is the result of your thinking. You're delusional thinking. Stop accusing others of doing what you are doing. You constantly post quotes from K because you are the consummate follower/believer. There is no evidence that you understand any of the quotes from K you are constantly posting on here. You use the quotes like a club to beat what you see as your opponents.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 05 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: Wim, There is no thinker,no observer,no analyzer,no watcher. These are all illusions that don't exist.

The above is just an idea, a belief for you because you read where K said it. But clearly you don't understand what K was saying about these things or you wouldn't continue to do these things while accusing others of doing it.

Here are the facts: You observed what Wim wrote, you then analyzed it, thought about it and then made your above comment. Now you are watching to see if either I or Wim will comment on what you post so you can read it, analyze it, think about it and then comment on it.

You really can't see this? Is it because protecting your ego is more important that you don't see that you are doing what you accuse Wim and I of doing?

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 05 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: Jack, Stop the psycho path behavior before you get a brain tumor.

Good lord. This sounds like something a petulant 13 year old would say. How old are you?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 06 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: More trashy comparesons.

No just commenting on your childish responses. Can you write something, anything, that sounds like an adult? That sounds intelligent?

And what is trashy about what I wrote? Do you even know what trashy means? That's the only description your limited vocabulary could come up with? Trashy?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 06 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: We have a democracy in here:)

Yes, what are you trying to say here? This makes no sense at all. Understanding what K pointed out is not based on a consensus of opinion. This might be your most irrational comment to date.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 06 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

While your responses remain juvenile they are also becoming more and more irrational. Can you respond to what has actually been written instead of to the delusions of what you think has been written?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 07 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

Dan, yes a great many of our posts on here are childish. I'll admit that. And probably at least two of us should be removed from this forum; One Self and me.

But it is difficult for me to watch while someone who relentlessly posts crap on here to continue without some response. I'm talking about One Self. I think he's probably a teenager who thinks he sees what K pointed out but instead is making a religion out of it with him as the chief interpreter and high priest.

One thing we have going for us on this part of the forum is that it has, so far, escaped the gross verboseness that Clive's and John Raica's forum seem to be addicted to. You guys are thinking way too much and expressing way too many opinions and intellectualizing on things that probably require much less thinking and writing and much more quiet observation.

John has even taken editing dialogues with K. I wonder if he is even aware of the tremendous arrogance involved with do this. The presumption that he knows what K was saying well enough to break it down for the rest of so it will be "easier" for the great unwashed to understand? K warned very often about the inevitability of people rising up and becoming interpreters of his work. I think John has met the criteria for that role.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 08 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: My genuine interest in life is to understand krishnamurti fully. And this site is not helping at all with all the contradictions and silly talks..

Then leave this site. Your often irrational and irrelevant quotes of K, which you apparently don't understand, are part of the contradictions and silly posts. But, apparently, you can't see that because you are a true believer. A follower. That's why you quote K so often.

If you will take the time to notice K was more about the negation of what appears to be; conditioning, image making, etc than he was about spouting positive affirmations of what is. If you think you know you don't know, is something K frequently pointed out. Let go of your beliefs, your conditioning without replacing them with others.

Don't worry about understanding K. Be concerned with understanding yourself. I think this is what Wim was saying too.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 08 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: As I said before, anything that the devil says you should do the opposite. Because the devil is loveless.

You are just verifying what I have pointed out about you several times. You are a true believer. You are still trapped in the conditioning of believing in the Devil, Jesus, God and all the other rot that is part of our common religious conditioning. And now you have added K to that belief system. He is your new messiah, new Jesus, your spiritual leader.

You sound so much like a fundamentalist Christian fanatic who goes around praising Jesus and quoting the Bible.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 08 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote:

One Self

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Krishnamurti: You may remember that story of the devil and a friend of his were walking down the

This is just a story. A parable. A joke. It doesn't mean K believed in the devil.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 08 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: The last thing that one wants to do is talk to an ugly devil who has been in wars and is deeply hurt.

You post like the ignorant, naïve little boy or girl that you obviously are.

I looked up your quote. It was easy enough. You left out the context from which your quote was taken so you could make a point. See the next post for the context from which you took your dishonest post on K talking about the devil.

You also edited out the word "laughter" which described the audience reaction to K's story about the devil organizing religion. This was a dishonest thing for you to do. Didn't your parents teach you to be honest?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 08 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

Chap 7, 6th February, 1969, 4th Public Talk U of Cal, Berkeley:

Man is searching for something more than the transient. Probably from time immemorial he has been asking himself if there is something sacred, something that is not worldly, that is not put together by thought, by the intel- lect. He has always asked if there is a reality, a timeless state not invented by the mind, not projected by thought, but a state of mind where time does actually not exist: if there is something "divine", "sacred", "holy" (if one can use those words), that is not perishable. Organized religions seem to have supplied the answer. They say there is a reality, there is a God, there is something which the mind cannot possibly measure. Then they begin to organize what they consider to be the real and man is led astray. You may remember the story about the devil who was walking down the street with a friend; they saw a man ahead stoop down and pick up something from the road. And as he picked it up and looked at it there was a great delight in his face; the friend of the devil asked what it was that he had picked up and the devil said, "It is truth". The friend said, "Isn't that a very bad business for you?" The devil answered, "Not at all, I am going to help him organize it,. (Laughter)

The worship of an image made by the hand or by the mind and the dogmas and rituals of organized religion, with their sense of beauty, have become something very holy, very sacred. And so man, in his search for that which is beyond all measure, all time, has been caught, trapped, deceived, because he always hopes to find something which is not entirely of this world. After all, what actually have traditional, bureaucratic, capitalist, or Communist societies to offer? Very little except food, clothes and shelter. Perhaps one may have more opportunities for work or can make more money, but ultimately, as one observes, these societies have very little to offer; and the mind, if it is at all intelligent and aware, rejects it. Physiologically one needs food, clothes and shelter, that is absolutely essential. But when that becomes of the greatest importance, then life loses its marvelous meaning. So this evening it might be worthwhile spending some time to find out for ourselves if there really is something sacred, something which is not put together by thought, by circumstances, which is not the result of propaganda. It would be worthwhile, if we could, to go into this question, because unless one finds something that is not measurable by words, by thought, by any experience, life - that is, everyday living - becomes utterly superficial. Perhaps that is why (though maybe not) the present generation rejects this society and is looking for something beyond the everyday struggle, ugliness, brutality.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 08 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: Communists were aggressive and rude and they failed. But the spirit of rudeness goes on. Nothing dies in human consciousness. The corruption goes on.

You are getting more and more irrational in your responses. Communists? What does that have to do with anything? Why not discuss the issue at hand? I showed where you purposely edited your quote to benefit the ridiculous point you were trying to make. Let's stick with that. What about it? You cheated. You see that right?

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 09 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: You have problem with lauphter,it is very obvious. I didn't put that word in there(what for!).

Because it proved what I said originally. It was a joke, a funny story and that's why people laughed. K didn't believe in the devil. No one who has read K for a while and understands anything of what he pointed out would believe in a devil, a god or any of that crap. Organized religion is the invention of thought. It's a crutch, an escape, a drug. Why is that so hard for you to see? Because, like all of us, you have been conditioned since birth to believe in all of this religious crap. You, apparently, have not been able to see through that conditioning yet. See it for what it is. At least you're consistent. I'll give you that. You have single-handedly destroyed this part of the K forum.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 09 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

I know it's probably a waste of time but here is today's Daily Quote:

Krishnamurti Quote of the Day Group Discussion 2nd December, 1947 | Madras, India Mind is constantly wrapping itself in belief, belief in ideation, belief in memory, etc. Essentially we believe in order to be secure, not to get lost in the wood, to have a lighthouse, to have a point towards which thought is culminating, progressing, focusing. This focal point helps us to guide ourselves. A belief, whether physiological or psychological, is a necessity to him who is frightened. 'It is my experience and therefore I hold on to it as a guide, a conviction which helps me to progress in life.' Surely belief, a conclusion, a working hypothesis, a conviction, an experience which I hold on to as a guide, an ideal, a conviction which helps me to progress in life, are all merely a pattern, a mold in which the thought functions.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 09 Oct 2019
Topic: Meetups in Brussels

One Self wrote: Can a false person become truthful? No. Can ugliness become beautiful? No. Every thing is what it is.

I urge you not to give up. Just because you tried to deceive us about your quote doesn't mean that you can't change. It doesn't, necessarily, mean you can't become an honest person. However, just as a suggestion, I think you have a real problem with irrational thoughts and posts. What does Trump have to do with any of this? Oh wait, I get it, he's the devil right? Well, I can't disagree with you on that.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 09 Oct 2019
Topic: On Relationships and Conflict

Hi Sean. I don't have time to watch the whole video right now because of an appointment. But I think many of us have noticed how divided we all are. Most civilized human beings, assuming there is such a thing, readily see that racism and the bigotry and hate that goes along with it, for example, is divisive and destructive. But do we see that nationalism and organized religion is no different than racism? My country and your country. My god and your god.

Has there ever been a war where one or all of these institutionalized divisions have not been the cause? Yet, from the time we are born we are taught, conditioned to believe, that racism is wrong while almost nothing is said about the other two institutions; nationalism and religion. Actually, most of us are taught the latter two institutions are good and necessary. We keep these latter two institutions alive because they give us the illusion of security and belonging to something larger than ourselves.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 09 Oct 2019
Topic: Is there a heaven? God? Or is it just an illusion we have been conditioned to accept?

Public Talk 3, Brockwood Park, England; 13 September 1975

Q: About two years ago I was a Christian so it is very difficult to get rid of statements that Jesus made that no man cometh to the Father but by me. Although I find more sense in your message at the moment, how do you equate this? K: All right sir, it is very simple. I have no message. Right? I am just pointing out. That is not a message. Q: But why are you doing it? K: Why am I doing it. Wait a minute, I'll answer it. First of all let us answer the first question, then the other afterwards. There is a great doubt amongst those who have gone into this question whether Jesus lived at all. There may have been a Jesus but we won't go into all that. Why do we want a message? You understand? Why do we want somebody to give us something when everything is in you? You understand? Q: It is wonderful. K: No, it is not wonderful. (Laughter) Please. It is not wonderful. Please do look at it. You are the result of all the influences, of the many cultures, many words, propaganda, influences. You are that. And if you know how to look, how to read, how to listen, how to see - the art of seeing, the art of learning, the art of listening - everything is there, right in front of you. But we don't have the energy, the inclination, or the interest. We want somebody to tell us what there is on the page. And we make that person who tells you what is on the page into an extraordinary human being. We worship him, or destroy him, which is the same thing. So it is there. You don't want a message. For god's sake! Wait a minute, sir. Do look at it, please! Is the book important or what you find in the book? What you find in the book after you have read it, you throw it away. Now what you find in these talks, you listen, find out, go into it and throw away the speaker. The speaker is not at all important. He is like a telephone. Right? The other question is: why do you speak. Does that need answering? Would you say to the flower on the wayside, 'Why do you flower?' It is there for you to look, to listen, to see the beauty of it and come back again to look at the beauty of it. That is all. Q: We have the message in ourselves, we are the guru. K: We have a goal in ourselves. Q: Guru. K: Ah, guru. My god! Q: (Inaudible) ...it is heaven. K: We have a guru in ourselves. Have you? Please listen. Guru means in Sanskrit, the root meaning of that word means, heavy. Q: He said 'heaven'. K: Heaven, yes. Heaven in ourselves. It is the same thing, sir. Have you a heaven in yourself? My lord, I wish you had! Have you a heaven in yourself? Or yourself is so confused, so miserable, so anxious, how can you - what a set of words you use - heaven. You know, you substitute god into heaven, heaven as god and you think you are quite different. Before, people believed that you had god inside you - right? - light inside you, or something else inside you. But when you see actually that you have nothing, just words, then if there is absolutely nothing, then there is complete security. And from that everything happens, flowering. That's enough.

Krishnamurti Texts 'Is There a God?'

?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Oct 2019
Topic: Is there a heaven? God? Or is it just an illusion we have been conditioned to accept?

The Christian concept of god and heaven is the opposite of what K was pointing out. For Christians, and in other organized religions too, there are a bunch of goals to attain. You have to do this or be that before you can go to heaven, etc, etc. But didn't K point out that less was better?

Instead of trying to attain these goals that religion sets out; goals of becoming a different person "through Jesus" and all that rot that actually expands the self, produces more images of the self, you have to understand yourself. Understand the images you are creating of yourself.

Read what some people are writing on these forums. They talk of love and conflict and the self and much more yet these are all just ideas, images they have of what they think K was saying. Read how they praise each other and encourage each other to believe that they have "changed" and that they know what "love" is or "peace" or "understanding" or "conflict". They don't. Isn't it correct that with K the understanding, love, peace, ending of conflict and all the rest can only be when the center, the self has disappeared? But by claiming to have understood all of these things, to be living all of these things they have actually expanded the self and the images that sustain the self, the ego.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Oct 2019
Topic: Is there a heaven? God? Or is it just an illusion we have been conditioned to accept?

Letting go of everything is so very difficult because we have been trained, conditioned to accumulate more and more. Not only more material goods, but that which is really destructive, to attain what we believe are more spiritual attributes. We all do it by habit without even thinking about it. And most of us are doing it here on these forums without even realizing it.

We are expanding ourselves, our center, by believing we are suppose to work hard and understand and, then attain, all those things K talked about: The love, peace, understanding, oneness with all of life, etc. These things exist whether we understand them or not. But these things are not for the individual, the center of conditioning, the accumulator of experiences. Only when all of this ends are these things like love, peace, etc real. At least that's what K has pointed out. I don't claim to have dropped my center, my ego.

So when you read someone on these forums, or someplace else, claiming to see this or that or be this or that who is it exactly that is claiming to know these things? The center, the ego which is a denial of really knowing these things.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 11 Oct 2019
Topic: On Relationships and Conflict

>Yes, and those who are skillful necessarily have a level of awareness. Certainly with more awareness there is less conflict. Because awareness and love are not really separate.

>One more thing: to notice that you are in conflict is touch your own conditioning. Conflict always points to your conditioning if you look really, really closely. But we don't like to do that, do we?

These above two quotes are just two quotes picked at random from a whole slew of similar quotes by this poster, whom I won't name, and others who have posted opinions that have no proven basis in fact, at all. They are idealistic assertions from people who are obviously convinced that they have seen everything K has seen and are now here to advise the rest of us. Another forum, on this site, is full of these kinds of self aggrandizing posts.

Is not the essence of observation and understanding the "quiet mind" K referred to? He talked about the emptying of the mind not filling the mind, the consciousness full of endless opinions and baseless conclusions.

These kinds of reactions of thought inevitably seem to lead to more images of the thinker which is the expansion of the center, the ego and obviously not the emptying of the consciousness as K has so often pointed out.

Understanding is fluid. It flows. Thinking one knows seems to lithify that understanding like rigor mortis stiffens a dead body.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 11 Oct 2019
Topic: Is there a heaven? God? Or is it just an illusion we have been conditioned to accept?

One Self wrote: So the above statement is not an opinion or knowledge! Only what others say in here is always an opinion according to Jack's knowledge!

You should really try to do something to understand and deal with all the hate you have in you. That hate that is constantly being directed at me.

I'll tell you what; you stay off the threads I start and I'll stay off the ones you start. In that way we can end this conflict between us. If you don't agree I will be left to presume that you would rather be angry and display your hate than to find some sort of peace.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 11 Oct 2019
Topic: Is there a heaven? God? Or is it just an illusion we have been conditioned to accept?

So the answer is no. You're going to keep on posting these irrational, nonsense messages full of hate and anger. You would rather perpetuate this conflict than to end it now. Is that what you are saying?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 11 Oct 2019
Topic: Is there a heaven? God? Or is it just an illusion we have been conditioned to accept?

Why do you refuse to answer a simply question? Are you going to perpetuate this conflict by continuing to post insulting, illogical posts directed at me or not? It's a simple question. I am not repeating anything but this simple question that even you should be able to answer.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 11 Oct 2019
Topic: Is there a heaven? God? Or is it just an illusion we have been conditioned to accept?

Sean Hen wrote: Doesn't it all come back to constant awareness from moment to moment?

Yes. This instead of accumulating knowledge in the form of conclusions and opinions that immediately becomes part of the past. This adds to our conditioning, this is our conditioning; knowledge and experience.

If we already think we know then we quit observing or we observe with a bias which is constantly trying to validate what we think we already know.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2019
Topic: On Relationships and Conflict

Sean Hen wrote: Hi. Above is a quote from idiot?. The question that I think Jack raises is whether such a quote is based on observation or is purely theoretical. Please correct me if I got that wrong Jack.

Sean, the above quote you cited from idiot is not his quote but one from K as the citation he provided clearly states. What I am questioning is the habit that several people have on this K site. It is individuals lecturing the rest of us on things such as love, conflict and much more. They seem to be trying to project the image that they have transformed and see things like K saw them. They are trying to help us become as "enlightened" as they believe they are. I do question this and this kind of posting is almost inevitable on this kind of site.

Most of us have been conditioned all of our lives to believe that spiritual attainment is the result of effort, which is time. That "we", "I" the center will eventually become a highly spiritual and enlightened human being. The snag is that for K as long as there is a center there can be no understanding, no realization of truth. The more the individual professes to "see" the less likely it is that they see anything but their own delusional beliefs.

As anyone can observe, organized religion is based on attainment. A positive accumulation until one reaches spiritual enlightenment. What K has pointed out is the exact opposite. One doesn't accumulate experience and knowledge but rather the mind is emptied. And not emptied by individual action or effort but by something else that releases, empties the mind of conditioning. And this is extremely difficult to do because it necessarily requires dying to all those images we have of ourselves. The emptying of the consciousness requires the death of the psychological human being.

We don't attain understanding of love, as one example, by learning everything we can about it but rather dying to everything we think we know about it. I'm suggesting that telling others what "love" is or "conflict", etc and putting these things into words is the denial of that understanding one may profess to know.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Oct 2019
Topic: On Relationships and Conflict

idiot ? wrote: I question whether there is such a thing as an enlightened human being.

Yeah, I do to. Enlightenment is one of those loaded words describing an idea that many people chase after in not only organized religion but other hustles like those from self anointed gurus from the east. For what K pointed out, the emptying of the consciousness, I don't think there is any word for it. At least I'm not familiar with any. How do you name something that is, basically, the ending of thought; a dying of the psychological consciousness? And why name it anyway?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 14 Oct 2019
Topic: On Relationships and Conflict

Idiot?. Today you posted this line in a post on another forum. It was as follows:

idiot? wrote: When the truth is clearly seen there is transformation.

This is what I was trying to point out in some other posts of mine recently. Have you been transformed?