Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Jack Pine's Forum Activity | 5792 posts in 2 forums


Forum: General Discussion Wed, 07 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Peng Shu Tse wrote: We are all marked by our cultures and the American is known the world over for imperiousness and insensitivity.

You are a bigot who judges everyone living in a particular country to be the same. Aren't you being hard on Mr. Lein to say nothing of all the people who live in America? Pardon me, but your hatred is showing.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 07 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Peng Shu Tse wrote: Just because I have yellow skin

You know, I have never seen anyone with yellow skin except someone suffering from an advanced case of hepatitus. Another derogatory remark from you and this time against an entire race. What is the matter with you?

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 07 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

RICK LEIN wrote: the dark side I sense in you!

Mr Lein, bigoted and seething with anger he is.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 07 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Peng Shu Tse wrote: There are seven colours in the spectrum with infinite number of gradations between them.

Actually, there may be an infinite number of colors. The spectrum visable to the human eye is very, very narrow as is our range of hearing. Some animals can both see and hear in a wider range than humans. We have machines that can pick up "colors" outside of our, human, limitations.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 07 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Ok Peng or Paul or whatever name you prefer, STOP IT RIGHT NOW. No more insults from anybody. Although quite a few of us have slung personal insults in the past that really hasn't been going on that much or at all since you left a month or two ago. There has been, for the most part, a peace on this site without your presence. Your propensity for the inane and seeing that your opinion is heard over everyone else's, no matter what the topic, is really irritating and distracting. This is not your, or anyone else's, personal site to say and do whatever you wish.

I don't know Vietnamese but Mr. Lein assures me that he said nothing of the kind of which you accused him of saying. Your filthy language was inaccurate and completely uncalled for and this is not the place for it.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 08 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

So once again we all have to suspend any conversation relating to K's discoveries so that we can talk about Paul Davidson's new alter ego. It's always about Paul Davidson who flits from thread to thread like a mad hummingbird setting the agenda and dominating every topic.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 08 Dec 2011
Topic: Mass demonstrations in the world today

There is great turmoil in the world today like there has never been before. The world has certainly had recessions, depressions and various other economic, social and political inequities in the past. In the 20th Century there was the Great Depression and two devastating world wars. But this present situation seems to have and element in it that hasn't been there before. There doesn't seem to be a recovery or end in sight. Or even a plausible possibilty of a recovery without a complete restructuring of all of our systems and our heavily conditioned brains. We are conditioned by our traditions and the general acceptance of what is to believe that this is the "best" way to live. But there does seem to be a growing awareness that a cancer called capitalism is sucking the life and energy from the people of this planet and from the planet itself.

The division between those with wealth and those without has never been greater on such a world scale. The human population of the world recently exceeded 7 billion. At the same time access to potable water has dimisnished around the world at an alarming rate. Large amounts of land upon which to grow food has either been stripped of it's nutrients through over farming or climate change or being used to graze livestock for food. Raising animals for food is a particularly ineffcient use of land.

Greed has been institutionalized as something to be sought after. As something we all should aspire to. We are educated to be a "success" but not educated to understand ourselves and our place in nature. Success is measured in how much material wealth one has accumulated. Insanity. This is something K pointed out over and over throughout his life as most of you already know.

So how is a person who is aware of all this, who is watching all this and who has read K, who has listened to K suppose to live in this world?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 08 Dec 2011
Topic: Mass demonstrations in the world today

B Teulada wrote: I do hope this tremendous crisis will not make people greedy, insensitive and callous.

But Ms. Teulada don't you think people are already greedy, insensitive and callous? Not everyone but many.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 08 Dec 2011
Topic: Mass demonstrations in the world today

B Teulada wrote: K said all we need is food and shelter.

I think I would add clothes to that list. We don't want to spike the population growth more than it already is. I'm just kidding a little about increasing the population. Thanks for your thoughtful comments

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 09 Dec 2011
Topic: Mass demonstrations in the world today

Peng Shu Tse wrote: Yes, and now due to global warming mania 33% of US arable land is subsidised to make bio-ethanal to curb global warming

You see this is part of the problem. So many people have accepted the idea of nations. One against the other. My country is better than yours, etc,etc. The division this kind of thinking, this lack of intelligence, produces is destroying the world. The acceptance of national divisions and the acceptance of the division of organized religions is the problem. And while this type of twisted thinking is common in the world it still surpises me to see someone who claims to be interested in Krishnamurti and who takes up so much space on this K forum to produce such thoughts.

And yes Paul, global climate change is a fact and has predicted that some places in the world will become wetter and cooler while other areas will become dryer and warmer. The Southwest US is an example of the latter. We set records last summer for dryness and heat from Louisiana to LA. If you could only see how destructive your refusal to see the simple fact of climate change you would stop it immediately and apologized to your family for your ignorance which will cause them the miserable life you and other deniers are guarenteeing them.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 09 Dec 2011
Topic: Mass demonstrations in the world today

Peng Shu Tse wrote: Yes, and now due to global warming mania 33% of US arable land is subsidised to make bio-ethanal to curb global warming.

You really need to document this statement. I don't think you can.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 09 Dec 2011
Topic: Mass demonstrations in the world today

ganesan balachandran wrote: The buffalo-cow lowed as she fashioned the flowing waters; she who has a thousand syllables in the final abode became one footed, two footed, eight footed, nine footed. gb

Excuse me, I don't mean to be rude, but are you insane? Where to you come up with this drivel you so frequently post? If it's from the Vedas try another site where someone might give a care.

Don't just repeat what others have said it dulls the mind and deadens the heart. Speak for yourself and throw away your old religious books.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 09 Dec 2011
Topic: Mass demonstrations in the world today

Peng Shu Tse wrote: I cannot find one at present but the points I made regarding the detrimental effects of corn-ethanol are clear and accurate. Here are some sources.

I'm not disputing that ethanol from corn is a problem. I am disputing your claim the claim that the US is using 33% of the land to grow corn for ethanol. I am very certain that figure is way too high. When you state something that you claim is a fact based on specific numbers you need to be able to back that up with documentation. If, on the other hand, you simply say a lot of land that could be used for food prodution is being used to produce ethanol then I would agree with you.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 09 Dec 2011
Topic: Mass demonstrations in the world today

Peng Shu Tse wrote: What I point to is how certain eco-fads are funded by big-government for hidden geo-political motives. I am for protecting the environment, not for destroying it, for enhancing it, not reducing it.

I agree with that statement too. But I think developing sources of energy based on the wind and solar would work at least to the extent of lessening the need for fossil fuels and the insane nuclear power option. But the vested interests continue to successfully block relatively cheap and clean energy developement. At least on a large enough scale to do some good.

As for the demonstrators, the so-called 99%, I support them but I am not too optimistic. Their intent is good but so was ours back when I was a young man and protested the criminal war in Vietnam. When the US pulled out, or actually was thrown out, of Vietnam then the whole anti war/social justice movement dissolved. And since it is not likely that the 99% will achieve any of their major goals in the forseeable future they may remain viable for awhile. And like our protests helped to end the war in Vietnam so may the 99% bring about some significant change.

I disagree with you that capitalism is not the problem. It is. It's basically a pyramid scheme that exploits the majority while enriching a small minority.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 11 Dec 2011
Topic: Mass demonstrations in the world today

Peng Shu Tse wrote: Occupy it?

Damn right, occupy it. The young people around the world who have been "occupying" various locations have shown a tremendous courage and restraint in the face of incredible police cowardice and violence. Back forty years ago during the anti Vietnam war protests we were not so restrained.

So many young people of today are beginning to see that their prospects of adequately meeting the three needs of life; food, clothes and shelter are not good. The politicians and the corporations they work for have become unhinged in their single minded pursuit of wealth and control of all aspects of our lives.

So many times K said that revolution has to begin with the self. Which appears to be true. The other kind of revolution, the mass violent protests and wars against the oppressors, only lead to more tyranny. But standing up and pointing to the injustices and the tyranny of wealth and the control of production in the hands of the few is not wrong. One cannot just sit in one's room and be quiet. K stood up and spoke out in his way and these young people (and older people who are "occupying" too) are speaking out. They certainly have my support.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 11 Dec 2011
Topic: Mass demonstrations in the world today

What makes you think I haven't joined them?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 12 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

OK, question answered. The question has no meaning. Can we drop it and go on to something serious? It was a wrong question. And yes there are wrong questions. Questions that come from misunderstanding and waste energy.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 12 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

ganesan balachandran wrote: Then Peng or Paul has asked a good question and none of us are correct. gb

Not all of us answered or attempted to answer Paul's inane question. GB, you make such an excellant sycophant. Does Paul pay you or are you a volunteer?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 13 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

ganesan balachandran wrote: He has asked a nice question that brought to us a nice answer which nailed everything else.what is inane about this.

The question Paul asked did not produce the post saying "happiness is not personal". That was one of the daily quotes on this site. Whoever posts the quotes is working through K's 1935 talks.

I feel Paul's (Peng) post was inane because it makes no sense and shows a fairly remarkable lack of understanding of what the "you" is. His post also assumes that we all agree on what happiness means. For most of us "happiness" is an ideal based on our particular conditioning, cultural beliefs. Is the "you" seperate from happiness? Is the "you" anything more than a collection of knowledge and experiences that is the past? Isn't the "you" an invention of thought which is limited? Can the answer to "Are you happy?" be anything more than a reaction based on our conditioning, on our belief, our preconcieved notion of what happiness is?

Aren't there more immediate problems to be concerned with? The world is on fire: Greed, starvation, war, unemployment, pollution, over population, disease and so on. If a person's house is on fire do you walk in and ask him if he has any beautiful paintings hanging on the wall? Or do you help him try to put the fire out? We are not children here to play games or to be asked frivolous questions. Aren't we here inquiring on matters that are serious?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 13 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Collective happiness is sum total of personal happiness and is at the same level. Happiness of the intelligence is in different dimension - without a cause and not related to desire, want, effort etc. Journey to this happiness passes through the field of "I/We", Without the right understanding of which this happiness remains an illusion. What do you say?

Are you kidding? Did you not read K's quote where he pointed out that there is no "happiness on a personal level" or have you simply dismissed it in favor of your own convoluted theories?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 13 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

lidlo lady wrote: What goes on here is idle entertainment.

Amen.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 13 Dec 2011
Topic: Love...What is it?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: That is right. I can see clearly that self has very weak roots within me now.

So would it be correct to say that for YOU ending of the self is a process of time?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 13 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Are you handicapped, intelligence wise, and can't speak for yourself? Looks like that in your hurry to prove to yourself that you are more knowledgeable than the others, you don't read posts carefully and in right context. Someone who tries to shine with superficial knowledge/hostile reactions only strenghthens the roots of stupidity in oneself. That would apply to everyone, so don't take it personally.

Hit a nerve did I? I was just questioning your pontificating. If you have new evidence showing happines IS a personal thing then please do tell.

Hey, wait a minute, you're not going to try to charge me for this through the internet analysis of my foiables are you?

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 14 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Questioning can be done without malice.

Actually, the only malice I have seen is coming from you. You appear to be a pompous ass who has suffered a bruised ego because someone has questioned your unsupported theories.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 14 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Look intelligently, if possible, to find out if the shortcoming in you is not much more serious than mere foibles.

Is this your professional opinion or are you just striking out like a petulant child at someone who doesn't automatically accept your endless conclusions and professed authority? And if it is your professional opinion are you able to judge and convict someone you have never met and only "know" through the internet? If you really are in the psychological field your anger and attempt to hurt someone psychologically is very unprofessional and uncalled for.

You take yourself too seriously. When you post unsupported opinions in the guise of professional knowledge and expertise on the internet you have to be prepared to be challenged. Especially on a K site where a great number of people just don't accept authoritative ramblings.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 14 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: disrespectful and hostile in your interaction without any invitation, incitement or reason, then also you are welcome. The choice is yours.

Let's get something straight,Bud, right away. I don't need your permission, invitation or acceptance to post on this site. It is public. Some time back, a couple of weeks ago, you came into an exchange I was having with someone else. You were critical of something I posted. That's alright, I can handle criticism. I said nothing to you then, other than to reply, because anyone has the right to respond to anything posted on this site.

Now grow up and act like an adult. If your self respect is dependent on what others say to you then you have a problem that only you can work out. Don't lay it on me.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 14 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Presence or absence of division can not be shown by words.

First you make extravagent and immodest claims about your self-preceived transcendence of the mundane that we lesser mortals still suffer from. Then you invalidate these very claims with responses to your critics filled with hyperbole, sarcasm and rage. Must we accept whatever you or anyone else on this site writes without the option of skepticism? Aren't we allowed to disagree with you?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 15 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

I think one thing for all of us to remember, as K often pointed out in his talks over the years, is that anyone who says they know doesn't. Any one who claims to have transceded anything hasn't. You cannot apprehend, own or acquire truth. It doesn't belong, can't belong, to anyone. It is what remains when the self is not. As long as there is a center there is no love, truth, "what is" because this "what is", the eternal present", if I can call it that, cannot be when there is a self which is the past.

Do I know this from my own personal awareness? No. But K has pointed this out along with other discoveries he made to remove some of the pitfalls, some of the wrong turns. That's why we went to see K speak and why we still watch his videos and read his books; to get some beginning of understanding or to realize that there is something else beyond conditioning which is sorrow and fear and pain and all the rest of the misery of the world. At least that is the way it appears to me.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 16 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:

When the darkness of centre is gone, then only that thinking can take place which is not dependent on/dominated by psychological memory. What is the nature of this level thinking? What is its relation to memory which is a store house of past?

lidlo lady replied:

Is the reader to assume that for you "the darkness of centre is gone"? If so, you're asking too much of the reader.

Jack Pine comments:

If consistancy is a virtue then sudhir deserves a passing grade. He usually makes these extravagant and authoritative claims without a modicum of proof or reason to support them.

In a recent example he has invented something called "thought without words." That automatically makes him the "high priest", the ultimate authority, because it is his invention. This is how organized religion got it's start. A guy comes along and says there is a god, I'm his spokesman and so if you want to know what god says you got to talk to me.

By repeatedly making these outrageous statements sudhir attempts to keep himself in the focus of the spotlight. He is setting the agenda by making a statement that no one can possibly discuss reasonably because it is a figment of sudhir's imagination. But like organized religion there are always a few who will be sucked in. Never fails.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 17 Dec 2011
Topic: Are you happy?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: The thinking we are discussing here does not depend on memory

Above is a quote form sudhir and below is a quote from Krishnamurti. Which one do we take seriously? Which quote might make understanding the actual role of thought clearer to a serious person and which one sends him off into a pointless theoretical discussion? Which quote does not lead one to a greater understanding of the thought process? Don't confuse imagination with insight. They are two entirely different things.

In the Middle Ages in Europe high ranking religious leaders used to spend a great deal of time discussing how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. It seems sudhir has several of his own modern day versions of that ludicrous discussion.

Krishnamurti: Of course, Sir. Look, Sir, can I see without the movement of thought? The movement of thought is memory, because all thought is the response of memory, therefore it is always old.