Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Joel King's Forum Activity | 8 posts in 1 forum


8 posts  |  Page 1 of 1
Forum: General Discussion Thu, 01 Nov 2012
Topic: Letter to Lidlolady

A sincere thanks to Lidlo Lady for her persistence in wanting to break through the dilemma of the self. Seeing a lot of backlash on someone that is putting energy into finding that awareness K always hinted on. I welcome her view, you certainly won't find 'truth' with a bunch of 'yes-men' around... and lady's too ;) - undermines the whole of what K says eh? He has helped me to continuously observe the nature of my thoughts and I simply haven't come to any conclusion of self since it thus far appears to be such a fragmented, loosely held collection of learning from my random experiences - that changes further due to any perceived challenge that becomes associated with what defines myself at any particular moment. I will certainly hold him accountable to what he said about not creating another authority out of him and so far his approach has not left any sense of how a guru/priest/saint generally operates. This is a living, convulsively changing thing we are trying to grasp with only outdated modes of operation at our disposal. Also, Lidlo seems to be doing most a great service in addressing the religious aspect here. If indeed relationship is a mirror to reflect upon the self, then the defensiveness I see being reflected here is such a waste of energy for someone wanting to comprehend self knowledge in the sense K attributes to it.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 01 Nov 2012
Topic: Letter to Lidlolady

Kara D. wrote: Are they not living the teachings at all because they have a faulty understanding of what the teachings actually are saying?

lidlo lady wrote: No, it's because there's nothing there to be "lived". Selflessness and "direct perception" are logical and practical impossibilities. Transformation is a fantasy. There's no evidence of any such thing.

May we go into this statement? Is it possible that the living of these concepts are essentially unseen due to the continuous motion of gathering/storing experience that the self likes to do. Doesn't the embodiment of self always collect and store when it operates and if this operation ceases on brief occasions would you, being the self, know of it since it didn't record a particular moment of selflessness? Surely we would find it difficult to recall every second within a day... could these moments of unrecalled time be selflessness? As far as direct perception is involved in all this, have you earnestly gone through the motion of looking at whatever holds your interest at the moment without naming/judging/comparing? It still feels a bit unnatural to me, negating the strengthening influence of whatever constitutes the self. I find it difficult to 'short-circuit' that seemingly reflexive impulse (conditioning perhaps) to classify everything within my reach and also still have that sense of an observer that is separate which quickly creeps back in, indicating the collective image of self, the further gathering and strengthening of self is still going about it's business.

lidlo lady wrote: Transformation is a fantasy. There's no evidence of any such thing.

Would the use of the word tranformation have any implications to you of being permanent?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 01 Nov 2012
Topic: Letter to Lidlolady

lidlo lady wrote: Hold on. Don't bring in "the self" until you've defined it.

How about we start with the gathering/storing of experience. That is all I can know (in no certain terms) in regards to a self, as I (the person called Joel) contend that we only have this limited tool, called the brain, to comprehend anything - based on the limited agreement of vocabulary (being English). Letting the loonies run the asylum I suppose!?! Perhaps if we start from the fact of the limitations of this organic structure we may find something to further investigate, as it appears that a definition creates a point of reference which is subjected to being wholly prejudiced. As we can see from this brief exchange that if answers were readily available we wouldn't be in this forum, eh? I would be thrilled to continue uninterrupted - awash in my own beliefs, but you seem to share the same notion that it is just not possible if you wish to live something considered as an authentic life. I am delighted at your approach, please delve into your questions with more elaboration so that we may be in a 'spirit' of sharing so as not to always be at odds with a fellow 'inquisitor'.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 01 Nov 2012
Topic: Letter to Lidlolady

lidlo lady wrote:

Hold on. Don't bring in "the self" until you've defined it.

Eve G. wrote:

You don't know yourself? well thats a good place to start. Why don't you find out who you are? But let me remind you that this is a journey inward not outward. You are right if Dev really did his job you would not be here.

Eve, come on, give us (forum viewer's) more than this apparent assault on someone you deem unworthy (based on your words). Why waste energy in such a manner? Inward/outward are very troublesome terms. Is it that inward is this 'self' we are trying to grasp? Would outward be environment which influences the inward described self? Where can there be a definitive distinction between these terms? Let us discover what is behind this - creating such reactions.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 01 Nov 2012
Topic: Letter to Lidlolady

lidlo lady wrote: If we agree to talk about dogs, for instance, don't we have to make sure that the other is adequately knowledgeable on the subject? If the self is the subject (and it does seem to be), let's define it to our satisfaction before we proceed.

Adequately knowledgeable' suggests an authority out of what is known by this being called Joel that proclaims a self 'to be around here somehow' and defining it to our satisfaction would have us recreating the very issue of this dilemma of what is self. Having come across what K derives as emptiness, I do find a whole lotta nothing when the comparisons/prejudices/fears are swept aside, ever so briefly, and this physical structure can take a break from the unrelenting burden of being something.

I simply haven't come to any conclusion of self since it thus far appears to be such a fragmented, loosely held collection of learning, from random experiences, that changes further due to any perceived challenge that becomes associated, at any particular moment, with what is viewed as myself.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 01 Nov 2012
Topic: Letter to Lidlolady

lidlo lady wrote: If you really want to inquire into what Krishnamurti was saying, you have to put aside whatever bias you have for against The Teaching. Otherwise, you'll only confirm your bias. Where do you stand in this matter? Are you emotionally or intellectually invested in The Teaching? If not, you're free to examine what's there without prejudice.

Indeed, I actively scrutinize any notion of setting up another biased authority, his words have, thus far, gotten me away from the conformity of belief. There doesn't appear to be anything in its place except constant inquiry. Where are you in terms of perceiving the self?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 02 Nov 2012
Topic: Letter to Lidlolady

lidlo lady wrote: When you ask this question, what do you mean by "the self"?

let us see where this congregation of words takes us.

lidlo lady wrote: When you ask this question, what do you mean by "the self"?

let us see where this congregation of words takes us.

lidlo lady wrote: When you ask this question, what do you mean by "the self"?

let us see where this congregation of words takes us.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 02 Nov 2012
Topic: Division

Eve G. wrote: Nothing much changes in this forum, one can be gone a year and we are still stuck calling each other names, the logical extension of which is, yes we are all fools and idiots or we would not be here.

I ask seriously, as I see that you have had an account here since 09. Is this a truthful statement from you? Or were you simply in a frustrated state? I signed up less than 2 days ago and I have already seen some inside joke apparently, about a post I made and wondering around the site I see an over abundance of words with minimal substance/reflection (observation not criticizing). And the latest issue that has a moderator suggesting a separation of peoples dependent on their view of K?!? Completely antithetical of his whole process, eh?!?

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