carlos david wrote: vivimos limitados por nuestra mente,atrapados en comportamientos repetitivos,mecanicos y por lo general autodestructivos,cierta tendencia al aislamiento que produce todo clase de males,todo ello originado en nuestra forma de pensar y sentir ,parece no haber salida ,

Hola Carlos,me alegra saludarte en este espacio...Creo al igual que tu, que todo esto se origina en nuestra forma de pensar y de sentir...No nos damos el espacio para ver y descubrir ese ser condicionado que somos, en el accionar mismo de la vida, en el instante sin tiempo.Estamos tan mecanizados en el experimentar y el reaccionar, que no percibimos como el intelecto guia nuestra accion, dandole vida al " Yo",cargado de opiniones y de esquemas...Un abrazo, Angel.

Our language was build under the limitations derived to take the wrong way in evolution: The “ I “ way of living. I think K., many times have to talk in first person about realities he was living with the sense of totality. Please excuse my limitations writing in English.

Regards, Angel.

Every day, every instant, we live in our conscious, and therefore, we have to examine and understand each movement of the mind. It is necessary for us to observe if they are originate in thought, in memory, in the pass, knowledge and time, if they are part off any conflict reaction or if they come freely in deep perception, silence, totality and absence of time. Every instant we have to be aware, without any effort, about the true nature of “what it is”. We can stay in the familiar known and continue moving in the battle field off centered reactions or discover what is to watch and be alert, open to the instant of the nameless and the unknown. Angel.

I agree, Max, the unknown, silence, integrity and totality is what life is. But our conscious is far away from that universal condition. We are the known, the pass, the division and constant conflict and pain. The only thing we can “ do “ is be serious and observe, learning without words about this exile of our mind from what is true.

Angel Miolan wrote: the unknown, silence, integrity and totality is what life is. “Angel, are these the words manufactured by the mind in exile from what is true?”

Dr.Sharma: You know we can express about we can see and feel objectively.

“What does your 'I agree' at the start of your post No. 3 indicate? A projection or a state of being? If it is former, then can one 'do' what you are suggesting 'we can do' in your post as long as these words are a part of one's knowledge/belief. “

I don’t understand your question, Doctor Sharma. I don’t participate in a exploration in a speculative manner. I’m just saying that we are separate, divided, and we don’t get in touch with the Intelligence and Totality, because our condition of fragmented minds. Please excuse my limitations on English, because is my second language. Regards,Angel.

Max: “There is no way that the known can reach into the unknown. It is impossible for consciousness to transcend the known. When this is 100% understood, not just thought about and discussed, effort and struggle after the unknown ceases - - no use in it.”…

I feel we have two different things involve in this expressions…The first is that there is no way known can reach into the unknown. That is perfectly clear.. But the second point in relation with consciousness is not entirely understandable. Our conscious can change from a state of being trap in the pass/future, known, mechanical respond , intellectual habit, etc., to a completely free state of mind. Regards, Angel.

Max: “But there is more to the human being than consciousness. The human being is a living being, and therefore is in and of the timeless present - - the only condition in which living is possible. "We," consciousness - - the past, memory - - can never know this present. The present can only be lived in the moment”..

Yes, I believe the conscious of the known, our conditioned memory, can never live this present. But I feel our conscious can change radically in another state were timeless present and totality are more than words. Angel.

Max: “One asks, is it possible to live in the present moment, without consciousness or with just enough of consciousness to operate physically? In other words, is it possible to live entirely in the present?”

As we are moving and acting from the known, we can never perceive what the present is in a proper manner. Any idea made with words will result inappropriate to have an approximation to what it is. Is not a condition without consciousness. I understand it permit any individual not only to operate physically. Psychologically it is something we can imagine with our actual limitations, but we can function in total completeness and conscious of everything living in total silence and observation, in communion with the energy of universal intelligence. Regards, Angel.

All our culture is build on the sense of separation from the others and division. We learn, in the interior of our family relations, in school and in social relations how to live trying to preserve this false notion of a center, our Ego. We can said to our self and repeat to others a hundred of times that life is a unity, totality, etc., trying to obtain identification to a concept that give us a feeling of security. In fact, life is all that, but we don’t live at the present moment in that universal state of mind. Our conditioned mind, every instant, creates a false notion of time and also the experimenter that live in that state of separation, conflict and exile. Angel.

Max: “ I see attention/awareness as well as understanding as being of the individual, not of the Unity of the present. They imply separation and individuality. It requires an individual to be attentive, to be aware and to understand, together with a separate something to be attentive to, to be aware of, and to understand.”

Hello Max, I’m afraid I don’t agree with this points you wrote. I feel they are different kinds of attention, (concentration and narrow focus for example), related to will, effort, centered desires, etc. This movements implies separation and individuality. True awareness is a movement that emerges when mind discard with no effort the idea of gain and obtain any result. Awareness is present when the mind is interesting with passion in observe and learn about something with no distant and without words and conclusions. Awareness is and all inclusive kind of attention and is related with the absent of time (no thought, memory, etc) and also with the absent of individuality. Perception, insight and understanding of “what it is “ are possible only when total awareness is present.

Regards, Angel.

Ass Jiddu use to said many times about this topic, Psychological Death implies the end of the center, the pass, time and the known. That doesn’t imply there is no conscious in the person. The old and conditioned conscious stop but another and completely different quality of perception and consciousness emerge in the new and transformed mind. Regards, Angel.

When reality is none verbalize and don’t recognized in terms of the conditioned pass, that is the unknown. When reactive action of the known bring to an end, perception/observation without the observer open the door to what is total, universal, unknown.

You have a position, a point of view, saw you don’t explore with open mind without a previous idea. You don’t look out with passion and true interest. You affirm what you think. You are the one who knows and believe. "Did this happen to you. Or K. Or both??? Or you believe K?" I don’t believe in no one or anything. Not to “me”, but maybe the unknown occur.

Yes, Hunter, I said what K., say. I don’t have any doubt about the present of the unknown in reality and universe. I don’t have any particular interest in use thought and discuss if unknown exist or not. I’m not interesting in a philosophical debate. I think here people come to explore and understand the nature of mind. Regards, Angel.

Hi Hunter: If you are really interesting in an inquiry, you don’t affirm anything. You don’t said: There is no unknown. You just let behind what is false, that is the pass, the known, the intellectual analysis, the difference between the observed and the observer, and just watch with all your senses . You don’t speck any result or any conclusions. If you do (not the centered you) that, you will know without words, without any doubt if there is the unknown and how your mind feel it. Regards, Angel.

Both things.

dhirendra singh wrote: Luckily hear are the friends who have broad study of K.I think it will be good that they tell us basic points of his teachings from their broader study.And may also tell us about practical approach.

Can we begin making a short list of what we consider they are the more critical points to understand in Mutation of the Mind?

Any effort is a movement of will, and the “I” has part on it. The divided consciousness with the present of the “I” , can not perceive the totality of any conditioned reaction. It is important to understand the futility of any effort, because they generate division. But when the mind observes is completely conscious in silent, without any effort, in total awareness. It is important to understand the difference between these two states of consciousness. Regards, Angel.

“Why is this so that divided consciousness with the presence of "I" can not perceive the totality of any conditioned reaction?”

The “I” is part of all our conditioned reactions. Is the center, the experiencer in all reaction. Also it is the more superficial “level” of the complete conscious. In order to liberate all the conditioned contends, in all the “levels”, conscious and unconscious, the “I” have to be negatively perceive and explore. If we are really interesting in the transformation of mind. all the contents most be seeing. "Is such consciousness capable of directly perceiving anything at all, totally or partially? I’m convinced every mind is capable of watching and observes without the Observer. Observation and total awareness is and art we can learn. The movement of the “I” is only a centered and separated movement of thought. Regards. Angel.

Yes, I'm sorry. It happens sometimes because english is not my first language. I mean: contents. I'm not talking about any method and of course, is not the "I" the one is observing. There is observation without the observer. Please excuse my poor english again. Angel.

“Awareness of questioning of 'what is': Awareness of recognizing and reacting shows, that memory, past prevent to sense the things as they are, so there is question, whether this past/memory/ recognizing can end? In short can thoughts stop?”

The process of thoughts, reacting, recognizing, definitely can stop. If there is a discard without any effort of all of the activities of thought, watching them as they are, apparently different manifestations (centered and not centered) but at the end made of the same nature ( false time, conditioned thought, memory, etc.) the mechanical process will come to an end. Of course, we have to keep in mind that is not some thing we can get or gain in any way because that introduce false time and division.

“Awareness of this questioning shows that it is past/ memory/self who is asking the question. Past which is thought, is reason of missing the present, which is reason of division as 'me' and 'not me', this past, thought, can never be present, can never make possible to sense the things directly, so ?”

Maybe the thought ask the question, but that doesn’t invalidate your need of a deep change in your life. Time do not exist, watching all that is pass is the only thing we can do.

“Only then there is true awareness, otherwise there is thought operated awareness.” You said it..

dhirendra singh wrote: Muad dheeb wrote:

Hello dhirendra...yes pointing, sharing seems a natural capacity , when this capacity is filtered by what we call self ,then it keeps sharing but the madness...

If you are open you can feel the difference. Regards, Angel.

I feel the understanding of the intervention of false time in our live is one of the more critical aspects of the message of Mutation of Mind. Living in the present is to dye from the pass. In the non mechanical process of understanding ourselves, we find what is to live free from the pass, free from our conditioning thought. To live free from our conditioning is to live free from duality. The mind finds what is totality beginning with the perception and understanding of its own division. Angel.

If someone recommend me a recipe, an ointment or whatever to really help me understand this painful state of division, my deeply ignorance in relation with the others or a Kit to restore my malfunctioning in daily life, I positively be grateful.

How much cost that remedy? I paid anything including my life for it. Angel.

Hello Kapila: I feel all this is part of the prevalence of false time and conditioned thought in our mind. As you know, habits are behaviors with conditioned content that comes from our memory and compel us to a particular act. We experience something one day, maybe because we are not aware and escaping from loneliness, sorrow, separation and conflict of the mind and feel better because we are temporary away of our problems. But soon we feel bad again and run again and again wanting our particular evasion of conflict. Our habits are part of the conditioned consciousness with the root in the pass and we need to watch and explore them very closely, without distant, learning at the same time what is the art of awareness and observation without observer. We have to discover the beauty of all this, because we are the only ones who can watch all this hidden contends, let them show and fade away. As Jiddu said,” is not dramatic, it is not spectacular, nobody knows about it.” “Still this constant denial of little things, the little whipping’s, the little rubbings off, not just one great big wiping away, is essential.” The everyday appearance of the desire of habit, like the manifestations of centered and conflict thought most be watch and wipe away with no effort. That’s the only way to learn about the known, habits, the pass, silence and the absence of time. Regards, Angel.

Hello Paul: If you read in details, I was talking about habits and trying to explain how they are store in memory, empathizing the need to be aware and observe how they move. Some habits are encapsulated in deeply “levels” of our consciousness and we have to learn how to observe it if we are interest in understand what they are. You are right, I agree with you habits are memory, that’s why I said they are conditioned contents that come from the same place. In other hand, I don’t think is something wrong to understand they are occult things in the subconscious and unconscious that has “to come out” to be seen and wipe away. I don’t see any contradiction in my expressions. Regards, Angel.

Hello Dr.Sharma : Wipe for me, being more specific, is discard with no effort. Is the total act of seeing, watching and observing what is false with the heart and die to it. I feel what Jiddu said about death as part of life is absolutely true. One has to learn to die for every thought or emotional reaction, any conflict you can perceive, because they are part of the old, the pass, the known. When we are trap in any reaction and you give all your attention to it, with passion (not will) you penetrate what is the nature of the conflict and you discard it with no effort . At that instant, something occur that wipe all feeling of separation. Regards, Angel.

K said once there are three arts.The art of observation, the art of looking & the art of seeing.In most places K described observation as a unitary process inclusive of looking & seeingI thought mentioning this is relevant considering Dhirendra's original question of practical approach to K's teachings.

Hi Kapila: In relation with The art of observation, the art of looking & the art of seeing, in my first book of K., on Mutation of Mind : “Tragedia del Hombre y del Mundo” “La Mente Mecánica”…I found what I call interesting “indications” give by K. Of course, they are only part of the casual order he give to words in occasion of that particulars Talks in Europe 1962/1963.

JK: “First, there is attention, a observation without election of all your thoughts and feelings, of all you do”…

“From there comes a state of Awareness without frontiers, but in this the mind can concentrate”…

“And when the mind is completely quiet, without any illusion, .without any kind of autohypnosis, something emerge that is not created by mind.”

Some times I feel there is a extensive use of thought for intellectual enjoyment. We know every factor, the complete information about Mutation of Mind. But fear associated to psychological death is the last frontier. Angel

Yes, Doctor, this is the the last step in to timeless.You think is important to isolate and star watch every detail of the structure of fear itself? Regards, Angel