If you had not happened upon that book, video or live presentation of K, where would you be? How has contact with what K had to say changed your life? Are you the world you want to observe? Have you given the energy to observe who you are, to be that silence, and to be in this world without authority, status, or knowledge?

Didn't K?

Didn't K advocate some kind of ideal?

lidlo lady wrote: Who wouldn't take it as an indictment of what we are as compared to what we should be?

Isn't it an indictment of not being aware of what we are? Without the "should be", there is no comparison.

"There is only being and beginning...Order is the beginning, the source of an energy that can never diminish. To investigate it there must be an investigation of the senses and desire. That blessedness of order is when the mind does not have a single desire and the senses are operating fully, totally" Krishnaji Ch.35 of Pupul's book.

K pointed to our essence and potential. K helped me find a new way of looking.

lidlo lady wrote: The "should be" is implied. If all he talked about was how we avoid or deny awareness, that would be one thing. But he went on interminably about states of mind and awareness that may as well be science-fiction.

What may seem like science fiction for some, was the resonance of truth for others. Indeed, the "should be" was frequently implied and at the same time vehemently denied.

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Giving the description of 'potential' in front of people trying to understand the 'essence' was still a potentially serious danger that could derail their investigation/enquiry by creating powerful illusions, would you agree?

I would not be inclined to say it was "a potentially seirous danger" nor would I think it "could derail their investigation/enquiry". Understanding one's essence and potential is seeing the integrity of being. Such understanding does begin with enquiry, investigation or experimentation.

RICK LEIN wrote: it is very tricky to try and define or describe an altered state of consciousness....it does seem however that when we "Think" we have changed we may be just seeing the illusion of self improvement..or refinement of conditioning?

I'm not sure if the influence of K's teachings has been a form of "self-improvement" or "refinement of conditioning for me". One example is that I have less patience for the religious proselytes. I'm polite when encountering them, but find them to be an irritant. I do wish some illusions would just go away.

Essence: the true nature of something; the defining property or properties of something.

lidio lady, the "one" is the observer; the observer's essence. The seed contains the essence of the forest; the forest is the potential of the seed.

Rick Lein states that we are monkeys. Our primate essence is found in our physiology. But the "delusions of being something other" may be the outcome of self-awareness within one's environment, of action or of accident.

Perhaps, within the essence of humanity is the urge to search our essence and whence the observer arose, separating as identity and all that accompanies individuality: pursuit of security, fear, ego, etc.

lidlo lady wrote: Who or what do you think you are and what do you think is your essence?

I know my name, my genealogy going back 500 years, where I live, what I possess, my standing in the community and some of my plans for my remaining years on earth. As for my essence, I know nothing. I rely on enquiry and stillness and never the word.

Thank you, lidio lady, for the welcome matte. Understanding one's essence and potential is seeing the integrity of being.

Yo, lidlo, you have an endearing quality with all your nitpicking. We are not forced to be here (at Kinfonet) as inmates in a prison. I think we come to enquire together. I could attempt words expressing insights into the essence, potential and integrity of being, but never approach the clarity arrived at by listening to or reading K. I appreciate what others have to say. What's it going to take to get you off your high horse?

I think Lidlo is onto something. There is no going back. And yes, the "redemption" of ending of thought may bring some tranquility in daily life. If it works, use it. Lidlo seems angry because no one questions K's teachings and may use them as a basis for truth, reality, a dogma. I think Lidlo enjoys the conflict she stirs up, but may be one of the most avid (closet) K reader.

Another assumption is that life has a purpose or there is living "purposefully". Purpose implies belief, a belief that actions need to be planned or guided to an intended outcome.

Kali Yuga wrote: Which is why Ruth Bass started an inane thread a while back with the proclamation that she was bin Laden

Sorry Kali, this is what I wrote: ": Osama bin Laden and the Wages of War, Sun, 08 May 2011 ... is another man's nightmare. If "you are the world", then you, too, are Osama bin Laden." (YOU are the ***, not I ;)