K's roots are in theosophy. Who and what he became arrived through theosophy, its access to the Masters and their access to this world through him. K obviously didn't think the general public could have the slightest about what theosphy was, thus he spoke to the general public about ego and the disorder it brings about in the world, about conditioning, etc. If one wants to truly understand Krishnamurti, one would investigate theosphy to the fullest.

Arthur Landon wrote:
f one wants to truly understand Krishnamurti, one would investigate theosphy to the fullest.

Hi Arthur, If one wants to truly understand the teachings,ones investigation would be of one's self,and not a system of belief,is this not so?

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

K had to completely let of of all his own conditioning - including (and especially) the conditioning he received from the theosophists.

The truth K pointed towards cannot be approached with any conditioning still active.

Theosophy is not a system of belief, It is open to all the sacred teachings of mankind. Krishnamurti/s teachings are a part of it. K did not say anything new or unique from what the Upanishads , the Buddha, Jesus etc had taught. It was only put in a new language appropriate to the time. It was original having come from the source .

A study of some of the theosophical literature and also Zen , Vedanta or Taoism would certainly help comprehend K" teachings better. Ultimately , one has to see the truth oneself thru awareness and not be conditioned by any teaching including that of Krishnamurti.

Freedom from the Self is the true function of Man

Jayendran Menon wrote:
It is open to all the sacred teachings of mankind.

As K himself said - all those 'sacred teachings' have brought humanity to this point of disorder.

Throw out all sacred teachings and see humanity for what it is now - knowing that one is part of all this mess.

But of course - not everyone is prepared to do that - too difficult. Humans love to cling on to what gives us security.

This post was last updated by Patricia Hemingway Mon, 14 Dec 2009.

Jayendran Menon wrote:
Theosophy is not a system of belief, I

Sir,Did not Theosophy encourage following a path,did it not also give out grades of advancement, ect.ect.ect. There is an o;d saying,if it walks like a duck,quacks like a duck,it most likely is a duck! No offence intended sir,but it seems it is a belief system. There is the observation of what is,that is all,we can not depend on any person place or thing,including K.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
The truth K pointed towards cannot be approached with any conditioning still active.

Can truth be approached without any conditioning or IT IS and so unapproachable?-Regards.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Throw out all sacred teachings and see humanity for what it is now - knowing that one is part of all this mess.

Won't 'throwing out' be a reaction and will obstruct seeing clearly ? To negate something, 'dropping' will be better or throwing ?

It is really difficult to understand that insecurity of living with awareness is very 'secure' as the movement of life is taking care of you.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

Or even better than 'throwing out' or 'dropping' - just 'let it all go' and stand completely alone without any belief system for psychological support.

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
As K himself said - all those 'sacred teachings' have brought humanity to this point of disorder.

The mistake is not in the sacred teachings but with those who are conditioned to it.
and operate on that, without seeing the truth in that, and organise it after seeing the truth in that.

gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

This post was last updated by ganesan balachandran Tue, 15 Dec 2009.

Theosophy had a definite influence on K and his life.
It was theosophists who discovered K and gave him the space to bloom as a world teacher. There is no K without what K was before his enlightenment.

Theosophy however did not condition K. He spoke to one and all with same passion, but the choice of words and his lifestyle say a great deal about his Theosophical upbringing. These by the way are my thoughts and are subject and open to any debate.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
just 'let it all go' and stand completely alone without any belief system for psychological support.

Only important thing to understand in this is-standing alone is a living state only for a moment(now) and is inclusive of 'let it all go'. Is this correct ?-Regards.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

Dappling Light wrote:
There is no K without what K was before his enlightenment.

I would like to say that it is the other way around.Enlightened K was possible only because he had no psychological resemblence and relationship to what he was in earlier days. His words and life style may have appeared influenced by his earlier experiences, but the quality of mind that was operating in later years must have been active in a totally different dimension.- Regards.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

Dappling Light wrote:
Theosophy had a definite influence on K and his life. It was theosophists who discovered K and gave him the space to bloom as a world teacher. There is no K without what K was before his enlightenment.

Theosophy however did not condition K. He spoke to one and all with same passion, but the choice of words and his lifestyle say a great deal about his Theosophical upbringing. These by the way are my thoughts and are subject and open to any debate.

Sir * would only refer you to K's speech disbanding the order of the star,secondly K was very direct when he said one must have an empty mind,vacant,to be as nothing,to die to the past each moment,to perceive what is with clarity.So the teachings could not be what they are if they were distorted by past,attempts to influence him.*

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Truth is not open nor shut to conditioning. Truth is all that is. Theosophy has "lenses" that viewed more extensively the nature of reality as today's scientist view nebulae and microbes. Theosophy speaks of many vehicles available to all humans allowing interaction on various planes. Krishnamurti accessed these planes and interacted with entities throughout his lifetime, even decades after leaving theosophy. He was the Open Door. The general public and the wealthy benefactors had to be patronized with simplcity and word mazes, watering down the extra strength teachings K had to share with a select few. (Very few indeed.) So he left it up to us to find out for ourselves, because Truth is always there, if one cares to look, if one can unravel from one's myopic, self-interest POV. The "extra strength" teachings are still available today, directly from the Source, if one can quit dallying with dialogue and dive in deeply.

This post was last updated by Arthur Landon Tue, 15 Dec 2009.

RICK LEIN wrote:
K was very direct when he said one must have an empty mind,vacant,to be as nothing,to die to the past each moment,to perceive what is with clarity.So the teachings could not be what they are if they were distorted by past,attempts to influence him.

Exactly - K could not have discovered what he indeed did had he been tied down by any form or remnant of any religious (or other) conditioning.

Why to you think he spoke so often and passionately about ending all conditioning and attachment? Do you imagine that was 'second-hand' to K? He understood it so clearly because it happened to him also - at the hands of the theosophists and inflicted on a very pure and innocent young mind. K saw and understood the movement of it all - first-hand.

This post was last updated by Patricia Hemingway Wed, 16 Dec 2009.

I was born into theosophy and have been with it all my life. Many felt betrayed when K left the organization, but others knew it was what was best for the teachings to be what the Master wanted them to be. Theosophy actually caged the Master, trapped him in the physical. K's freedom was freedom for all, for the teaching and the others unseen.

Krishnamurti spoke tirelessly for 60 years travelling around the world. Is the world a more peaceful place because of this? Is there less disorder. Should we put aside K"s teachings because of that.

What is required is to find order within. Then we will know what to do about the disorder outside if we still perceive it.

Freedom from the Self is the true function of Man

How can Theosophy be a system of belief when it is open to the study of all religions and to any new source of wisdom. Each individual is unique and has to find his own way being open to learning from life from whatever source. Individuals within an organisation may indulge in their idiosyncracies like handing out diplomas etc. , that is no reflection on the teachings.

The core of all religions is the same. When you go within and find out the truth within oneself , one will be able see this.

Freedom from the Self is the true function of Man

Jayendran Menon wrote:
How can Theosophy be a system of belief

One would once again refer to K's speech when he completely,and without question addressed the value of sects,cults,religions,master,disciple,methods,beliefs,ect,in ending the order of the star. If one were to go to their search engine and type in the word Theosophy many if not all of the entries describe Theosophy as a system of beliefs. K said that religions have at best had a superficial civilizing effect. K said many times that all that involvement with the T.S. left no mark on his brain.Hence K's statement that Truth is a pathless land,he did not say except for the path,i.e. system of beliefs of the T.S.. no offense is intended here,of course one is quite free to believe whatever one chooses,but in this case K's words speak for themselves.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Jayendran Menon wrote:
When you go within and find out the truth within oneself , one will be able see this.

Sir,if one go's within to see the truth within,may one ask,what need is there for religion at all?

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Or even better than 'throwing out' or 'dropping' - just 'let it all go' and stand completely alone without any belief system for psychological support.

Yes Patricia,to be completely alone without any belief system for psychological support,to let go as you say,thank you.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Arthur Landon wrote:
The general public and the wealthy benefactors had to be patronized with simplcity and word mazes, watering down the extra strength teachings K had to share with a select few. (Very few indeed.)

Since K stated at the end of his life that No One understood either the teachings,or himself,it seems that by his very words the select were in the same boat as the rest of us,the general public.To be select is to be exclusive which is just another way of the self to find security.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Only important thing to understand in this is-standing alone is a living state only for a moment(now) and is inclusive of 'let it all go'. Is this correct ?-Regards.

Yes Dr.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Jayendran Menon wrote:
How can Theosophy be a system of belief when it is open to the study of all religions and to any new source of wisdom.

Of course it is a system of belief. Why are we so fooled by what we believe 'freedom' to be? Having more to choose from? More choice = more manifestation of desires.

All religion is nothing more than a band-aid for the disorder of humanity. There can be no solution in band-aids - only foolish comfort and security.

An important question is: Why does humanity demand these religions and belief-systems - no matter what they be? Fear of standing alone and facing responsibility for human disorder perhaps?

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
An important question is: Why does humanity demand these religions and belief-systems - no matter what they be? Fear of standing alone and facing responsibility for human disorder perhaps?

Hi Patricia, Yes to scapegoat responsibility is a common feature of mental illness{human disorder].

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Arthur Landon wrote:
Truth is always there, if one cares to look, if one can unravel from one's myopic, self-interest POV. The "extra strength" teachings are still available today, directly from the Source, if one can quit dallying with dialogue and dive in deeply.

Sir,both attack,and defense,are two sides of the same coin,are they not? For both seem to serve to strengthen the self.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

This may be a wrong question, but may i know what we would have done if JK were not there.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

This post was last updated by ganesan balachandran Sat, 02 Jan 2010.

If what K points to is the truth, it is there regardless of K. He simply focused attention upon the truth of human disorder by speaking about it for many years.

Even so, people hear what they want to hear, and many K-'followers' are interested only in what they believe will be their 'reward' - 'personal individual transformation' which will make them feel better and more secure about them'selves' in this disordered society - and they miss the truth of what K pointed to entirely.

This desire for 'personal transformation' (ie: to become a better/happier 'self') is very deeply conditioned into humanity by all the religions. One must move way beyond all that to understand K.

So also I feel one must move away beyond religion including JK to understand religion.

gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK