Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Strange feeling induced by K?


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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #1
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Have you not felt that the more you went into what K wrote and said the more you distanced yourself from people around you ?

Let me try to put this carefully because it has the potential to lead the conversation in a very wrong direction.

What I mean is, have you - at any point - sensed that you were sort of becoming ... er ... an onlooker of everyday life? Like a hightened feeling of not belonging. I have always had an undercurrent feeling of non belonging and now it is intensified !??
There is something, I don't know, an invisible distance, something a little strange.

You know, sort of "are there any like-minded people out there ??" I don't mean here, but around me in real life.

Living in a very catholic country, this K experience is proving to be the proverbial walk in the desert, let me tell you. I am so excited after discovering K and I cannot communicate with anyone ...

I am bit lost: is K's message not supposed to take us much closer to everyone and everything around us?

What is making things worse (or is better? I don't know any more) is that last month, a few days before passing away, my mother told me on her death bed that K was "everything" (she knew him when I was a toddler); she said "he is always with me; he is near, very near".

And what am I to do with this information ?? I feel she has terminally enclosed me behind a wall of glass (or is it an ivory tower ...?).

I feel this post is a bit confused. Sorry, I do hope I am making any sense here.

T

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #2
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1929 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
is K's message not supposed to take us much closer to everyone and everything around us?

Surely one can only reach a conclusion like that from the position of the known. And there is no taking the known into the realm of the unknown.

Also - what K pointed towards is much more than a "message" - such a view can only reduce the wholeness of the teaching to something quite banal. K questions and explores the total disorder of humanity.

One can only go to where K pointed, and find out first-hand the truth of it all. But going there with any preconceptions at all about what 'should be' there is only to bring on defeat before one even begins the discovery.

Thanks BT for an interesting thread. I understand totally about 'the proverbial walk in the desert' you speak of above. (A friendly hint: Get used to it. That is just the way it is. It can be no other way - embrace the aloneness.)

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #3
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
It can be no other way - embrace the aloneness.

Not necessarily, though it is a fact, now i feel more tolerant towards others attitude though it may be false. sometimes the climate need not be the same.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #4
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
I understand totally about 'the proverbial walk in the desert' you speak of above. (A friendly hint: Get used to it. That is just the way it is. It can be no other way - embrace the aloneness.)

Yes!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #5
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

ganesan balachandran wrote:
now i feel more tolerant towards others attitude though it may be false.

Which is false? Your belief in your "tolerance"and what is "more"...and why compare yourself with others anyway?:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #6
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
K questions and explores the total disorder of humanity.

Bingo!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #7
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

B Teulada wrote:
Have you not felt that the more you went into what K wrote and said the more you distanced yourself from people around you ?

no not really! :)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #8
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Helo Rick! my uncle was watching this discussion and he wnted to pose a question/let me see. how you face it.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #9
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

I am Vedaraman,Balachandran's uncle.
While I am able to nderstand JK's views on not having any feelings, thoughts and emotions,I find it difficult to keep the mind empty without any interference of feelings and thouhts.
May I have solution for this ?
Vedaraman

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #10
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

RICK LEIN wrote:
no not really! :)

That is what i wanted to tell.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #11
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

My three years experience of Jk's teachings suggest me that those who have really made a reasonable understanding of teaghings of his, the individual normally gets to know what is to be alone.When we really do not undestand what is to be alone, then we get such problems as you mentioned above, we attribute it to his teachings.When you have no problem in being alone, stay as such, the close people round you complain about your jk's teachings because they have no clue of a person who could be alone, inspite of you can mix with people, interact,communicate,be responsive, yet stay independent.People normally understand only possesive nature with all sanate values pouring out, which goes well with the dependence nature,if such things do not happen, they feel that they are isolated, and lonley, and they feel you are becoming a loner.The question is , am I really independent of all my senate value based behaviour?

nothing

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Fri, 25 Nov 2011.

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #12
Thumb_417412_234781426642305_395805484_n jean-m girard Canada 93 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
Have you not felt that the more you went into what K wrote and said the more you distanced yourself from people around you ?

Interesting post Teulada , yes I do feel like that I have distance my self from every one.

Some time I become very busy in my live and my focus goes some where else and I can be a few month without coming here or reading K. After a while I start missing the relation and I come back and I am in a totally different frame of mind, I start reading again and I am a bit lost with all those word , so it take me a bit a time to adjusted my self to the depth of the conversation. This could be one of the raisons why we distance our self, because most people don’t really stop and make a point of understanding a word or how they feel about some thing. I remember K saying that if two people have not the same intensity in there conversation, there is no understanding possible. Do you think that depth and intensity are two words that are very close to each other? Is the distance
that come along with studying K, has any thing to do with intensity?

The dead can be put into words but the living cannot. Every word used to communicate about the living is the denial of the living.

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #13
Thumb_417412_234781426642305_395805484_n jean-m girard Canada 93 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
The question is , am I really independent of all my senate value based behaviour?

Good point to consider.

The dead can be put into words but the living cannot. Every word used to communicate about the living is the denial of the living.

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #14
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

ganesan balachandran wrote:
While I am able to nderstand JK's views on not having any feelings, thoughts and emotions,I find it difficult to keep the mind empty without any interference of feelings and thouhts.
May I have solution for this?

I think the solution is with in the problem posed.When one is unable to hold his emotions, one has to depend on some body else for solace.For such a person aloneness means lonliness.But quite a few things we do not depend on others, yet few things we can not help depending.Much depends on how we undestand our possesive nature and ablity to go beyond it.Attention on our possesive nature is what one can look forward.This suggestion my go well with people who have read Jk, I wonder if non JK's could apprecaite it.That will clear the distiction between aloness and lonliness.

nothing

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #15
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
Have you not felt that the more you went into what K wrote and said the more you distanced yourself from people around you ?

Dear T.

That is right observation and the reason for this 'distancing' is easy to understand. The mind finds teachings 'interesting and special' and is occupied with them (at thought level) in initial stages of coming in contact with them.

B Teulada wrote:
What I mean is, have you - at any point - sensed that you were sort of becoming ... er ... an onlooker of everyday life? Like a hightened feeling of not belonging. I have always had an undercurrent feeling of non belonging and now it is intensified !??
There is something, I don't know, an invisible distance, something a little strange.
You know, sort of "are there any like-minded people out there ??" I don't mean here, but around me in real life.

All this would be verbal communication going on within oneself with oneself, but this is only my understanding in this matter, friend.:)

B Teulada wrote:
Living in a very catholic country, this K experience is proving to be the proverbial walk in the desert, let me tell you. I am so excited after discovering K and I cannot communicate with anyone ...

I would go in to this urge and need of communicating with others. It is important to understand (both verbally and non-verbally) what is the compelling force behind this urge.

B Teulada wrote:
What is making things worse (or is better? I don't know any more) is that last month, a few days before passing away, my mother told me on her death bed that K was "everything" (she knew him when I was a toddler); she said "he is always with me; he is near, very near".

She either shared her deep understanding or a superficial belief with you. Is it worth it to remain occupied with her words? How are you going to be free of them, is more important for you to find out/understand, isn't it?

B Teulada wrote:
I feel this post is a bit confused. Sorry, I do hope I am making any sense here.

Anything coming from heart is better than the best that intellect can produce, T. It is a good post. Thank you.:)

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #16
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Why sould I go about with JK's tag start interact with people, start complaining about them, instead I better take care of my reactions, and understand them and act, let people feel the change if there is any.That would make us become independent of our behaviour based on the sanate values.Never make a claim that your jk's follower.Feel the change.

nothing

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #17
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

jean-m girard wrote:
I remember K saying that if two people have not the same intensity in there conversation, there is no understanding possible. Do you think that depth and intensity are two words that are very close to each other?

Is it possible that right meaning/understanding of depth and intensity would not become clear until the fragmentation is gone within one's own brain?

K also included 'same level' and 'at the same time' as two parameters for right communication between two people.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

This post was last updated by Sudhir Sharma Fri, 25 Nov 2011.

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #18
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

«I understand totally about 'the proverbial walk in the desert' you speak of above. (A friendly hint: Get used to it. That is just the way it is. It can be no other way - embrace the aloneness.)»

I really don't mind, I just think it is a weird feeling. Not at all unpleasant though.
Anyway, I had to explain to a couple of people that JK was not a guru. After a while I found myself almost having to explain that reading him did not make me a madwoman, then I just gave up and stopped mentioning him altogether ...
The walls that immediately go up in a religious environment when you mention something like this are just unbelievable!

T

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #19
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
That will clear the distiction between aloness and lonliness.

:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #20
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

«B Teulada wrote:
What I mean is, have you - at any point - sensed [etc].

All this would be verbal communication going on within oneself with oneself, but this is only my understanding in this matter, friend.:) »

Yes. I agree.

«B Teulada wrote:
Living in a very catholic country, this K experience is proving to be the proverbial walk in the desert, let me tell you. I am so excited after discovering K and I cannot communicate with anyone ...
I would go in to this urge and need of communicating with others. It is important to understand (both verbally and non-verbally) what is the compelling force behind this urge.»

I may have an explanation for this that maybe is over-simplistic for you and that is that when you find something that may be as close to absolute truth as any of us poor, miserable human beings may ever come, you want to share it with others. I think this is the reason. I honestly cannot think of any other.

«B Teulada wrote:
What is making things worse (or is better? I don't know any more) is that last month, a few days before passing away, my mother told me on her death bed that K was "everything" (she knew him when I was a toddler); she said "he is always with me; he is near, very near".
She either shared her deep understanding or a superficial belief with you. Is it worth it to remain occupied with her words? How are you going to be free of them, is more important for you to find out/understand, isn't it?»

Being free of them.... Yes. At this stage I am still to decide if I want to be free of them at all. I know I may, eventually. But not just yet.

«B Teulada wrote:
I feel this post is a bit confused. Sorry, I do hope I am making any sense here.
Anything coming from heart is better than the best that intellect can produce, T. It is a good post. Thank you.:)»

Thank you back Dr. :))

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #21
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
That will clear the distiction between aloness and lonliness.

This distinction becomes clear nowhere except within one's own mind. It is futile to to talk about this with another.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #22
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

ganesan balachandran wrote:
While I am able to nderstand JK's views on not having any feelings, thoughts and emotions,I find it difficult to keep the mind empty without any interference of feelings and thouhts.

did krishnamurti say..Not to have..feelings..thoughts...or emotions..or did he say be aware of them? :0

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #23
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
I may have an explanation for this that maybe is over-simplistic for you and that is that when you find something that may be as close to absolute truth as any of us poor, miserable human beings may ever come, you want to share it with others. I think this is the reason. I honestly cannot think of any other.

Ofcourse one wants to share what is close to one's heart with others! I have no objection to sharing with others, but don't you feel that it is important to watch any reaction that may arises within oneself when such conversation is going on? Or ask oneself that if one can not watch them, then what are the reasons for that?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #24
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

True, dictionary gives meanings of those words, only thing is people do not take it seriously, that is the reason men like JK rise them in their teachings, we in turn discus them in the site. People like you, remind us. Thanks.

nothing

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #25
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

B Teulada wrote:
The walls that immediately go up

Such is the nature of belief's..does not matter what they are about...the self will look for security in any person..place...or thing!:)

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #26
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

RICK LEIN wrote:
kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
That will clear the distiction between aloness and lonliness.

A person can be alone if he does not require any body for his psychological needs, and a person who depends on some body for all his psychologically needs, will feel that he is lonely if he does not have a companian who meets those needs.Our interactions will reveal if we could be alone, or just loners.

nothing

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #27
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

«After a while I start missing the relation»

Could you tell me why, how ? What is it about the whole thing ?
If there is no security in it, no promise, no fun to be had, no heaven to be achieved, no angels in heaven and no promise of a marvellous ever after whatever.
What is it then?
If K pulls the carpet from under our feet and there's no reward for it, no way out, no candy, no consolation prize?
Are we a bunch of delusional masochists?

T

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #28
Thumb_295902_10150361346929121_667049120_8087939_521721644_n Angel Miolan Dominican Republic 179 posts in this forum Offline

I have a feeling I’ll try to communicate about what I understand are two completely different things correlated to this topic. Please excuse my limitations.
The first one is the difficulty all of us are going to experience trying to communicate to others. The great majority of human beings are totally ignorant about the Message of Mutation of Mind. They live unconsciously in the “I” , the Ego world. The majority of us also live there, but trying to observe and understand what is to live in a completely different manner, observing and discarting the center, the auto images, what is false, etc.
The fact is we don’t live the same way others live, and don’t talk the same language and also we are not interesting in the same superficial level of the things, because we want to learn about what is real and what is not. All that generates a circumstance where we feel isolate and the others some way or the other feel the distance about us. That occurs also, because the world of the “I” is the world of false division and separation. But at the same time when we have insights about reality in our relations, we feel closer to others persons, because we perceive without words, with no distance "what it is" and that “we are the world and the world is us”.
In terms of life as it is, relating together with others, experiencing and trying to communicate our insights and how we feel, we are going to feel isolate for the moment. We have our friends for these.But I think the more our mind gets involve in constant perception, discernment and awareness, can come across Mutation, a state were other persons and everything are totally and completely close, with no distance or separation. Angel.

lobo de la estepa

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Fri, 25 Nov 2011 #29
Thumb_295902_10150361346929121_667049120_8087939_521721644_n Angel Miolan Dominican Republic 179 posts in this forum Offline

RICK LEIN wrote:
did krishnamurti say..Not to have..feelings..thoughts...or emotions..or did he say be aware of them? :0

I believe, at any moment. Angel.

lobo de la estepa

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Sat, 26 Nov 2011 #30
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1929 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
What is it then?
If K pulls the carpet from under our feet and there's no reward for it, no way out, no candy, no consolation prize?
Are we a bunch of delusional masochists?

I wonder why anyone has the belief that there should be reward - or applause - for discovering first-hand the truth of human disorder.

In actual fact, it may well be extremely painful and challenging. And it probably will demand relinquishing everything that one believes one knows.

Either one has the passion to go there and find out, or one does not. It really is as simple as that.

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