Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Life & Living


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Wed, 23 Jan 2013 #151
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
By the way here in this part of the country we are having very mild winters presently and it's a treat to sit in the morning sun and enjoy the slightly chilled cool breeze . :)

life is

J.C.> Hi Pavi;
Minus -29 with windchill here,good day for looking out the window,no long walks and definitely no motorcycle.
Great post,I see where you are going with it and there is much to be considered.Difficult to respond in nutshell.Totally busy here,may be able to add something if I catch a break later.I really like your 'understanding oneself' and going forth from that position,all I would add at this point:'Really understanding oneself',and I don't think that I'm alone in finding this a quite demanding undertaking.Good luck,I'm sure you got something going here. Thanks,gotta go. ( :-)->---<

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Thu, 24 Jan 2013 #152
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
but then this is pretty simple Psychology 101 and it does not take K to tell us so

Hey B.T

Well it's rather nice to know that it sounds pretty simple psychology 101 and doesn't sound complicated at all . 
You know what T  many a times the simple things are the most misunderstood and often mishandled one's ... They say know common sense is very un common at times ... 

B Teulada wrote:
i have verified this to be so in my own life over the years and a lot more so since discovering K. but, as i say, i am not sure this interpretation is correct or that i have understood him correct

There is nothing like correct or incorrect actions  I guess when one comes  to an understanding of certain issues out of validating life' s situations well that becomes a reality for the time being ...which may change in due course of time when further awareness arises .  

B Teulada wrote:
And also, eventually, the less "me" there is, the less inner conflict, and therefore outer conflict, no?

Well I shall say that is crux of the issue . Less Me versus more Me ...? 
Largely one may have a basic understanding of what kind of a persons he / she is but to go into various multi faceted nuances of one self  I feel it is an unending study of one self  in every day to day situations . 

B Teulada wrote:
I do not remember actually reading anything on this anywere; i remember K mentioning this thing but never actually making clear what he meant by it

You may be right , and don't ask me to  bring any quotes , as I can't ... More than the quotes lots depends upon how we interpret , comprehend  and decipher what we read is important . Isn't it ? You know T when I first came in contact with K few things I absorbed from the teaching have gone well with my system ..... That is there are no escapes what so ever from our selves and our  day to day living ...  
One more thing which strongly made sense was in order to understand the far one needs to start from the near ... That is me and my life .. 

So naturally if my day to day life is not peaceful and conflict free how can I go into investigating all those difficult  topics of his  work like ... Ending Sorrow , Collective consciousness , Thought playing perpetual tricks , and what is Right Action .... Etc . 

This post was last updated by pavani rao Thu, 24 Jan 2013.

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Fri, 25 Jan 2013 #153
Thumb_stringio Paul D Brazil 647 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

A two-year-old is watching the film, 'Finding Nemo.' She says, indignantly, "I've never seen animals speak." And then adds, "Anyway, you can't talk underwater." This she has learnt from experience in the hotel pool. Later she comments, "There's only one Julia, isn't it, so when Julia goes to New York there'll be none left."

A small child mastering the principles of reality.

Head on the ground - feet in the clouds

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Fri, 25 Jan 2013 #154
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Julia Alejandra Rojas wrote:
A small child mastering the principles of reality.

Hi Julia 

It's good to know that the little one is doing well . Thanks for sharing little experiences of baby sitting :) it seems what all you couldn't understand all these years she taught you in a very short while ? :)  ( well that's only meant in a light hearted humor ha ! ) 

May I share some thing in here too ... Once we went out for shopping leaving my  grandee with my hubby ... You know what in a couple of hours of time the tiny thing of one and half years could show him everything in the house which ever he wanted to find out with few syllables she picked up by then and with sign language .... He being the master  of the house never much paid attention to ..What more, she exercised all her power on her g.dad and had her way in those few hours  of her time with him .finally when we came back from the shopping sojourn, she was looking very  refreshing  where as he looked the most hassled one ... :)))

This post was last updated by pavani rao Fri, 25 Jan 2013.

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Fri, 25 Jan 2013 #155
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 388 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

pavani rao wrote:
You know what T many a times the simple things are the most misunderstood and often mishandled one's ...

hi there Pavani, i have a feeling that we are talking about two different types of understanding, in fact i do understand krishnamurti or at least most of it .... intellectually ... which is no real understanding at all i am afraid.

and i suspect you are referring to something more subtle, the kind of more profound understanding that K wanted for (or from?) all of us.

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Fri, 25 Jan 2013 #156
Thumb_stringio ricardo mateo Spain 13 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

B Teulada wrote:
hi there Pavani, i have a feeling that we are talking about two different types of understanding, in fact i do understand krishnamurti or at least most of it .... intellectually ... which is no real understanding at all i am afraid.

and i suspect you are referring to something more subtle, the kind of more profound understanding that K wanted for (or from?) all of us.

You are very lucid and sincere B.T

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Fri, 25 Jan 2013 #157
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 388 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

ricardo mateo wrote:
You are very lucid and sincere B.T

sincere i think i am. lucid ... not so sure..... :-)

Where is the solution, where is the problem? at the Outside or inside us even?

may i also use this thread to reply to this? i was about to reply to you on John's thread and then i realised i keep highjacking everybody's threads ... so, again, thanks god (or God, or whatever) for Pavani's "anything under the sun" thing here.

so: the solution and the problem to using K to cater to our psychological needs:

not sure whether it is a problem or if there is a solution but it is certainly is something that takes me right back to zero.

K is the last stop; like my last chance; he said beware of escape, watch it closely, he warned us so much against it.

but if we then, in turn, make him yet another escape ...know what i mean? he certainly did warn us against that too ...

so, am I/are we using K as an escape? not sure i am and not sure i ain't ...

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Fri, 25 Jan 2013 #158
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
so
o: the solution and the problem :

not sure whether it is a problem or if there is a solution but it is certainly is something that takes me right back to zero.

...know what i mean?

so, not sure i am and not sure i ain't ...

J.C.> Maybe there is no ‘real’ problem.

The ocean is not a problem,it just is,so no solution.

Life is not a problem,it just is,so no solution.

From ‘zero’,you discover fresh, every minute.

Just avoid the undertows.

And the ‘fog’.

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Fri, 25 Jan 2013 #159
Thumb_stringio Paul D Brazil 647 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

john Campbell wrote:
The ocean is not a problem,it just is,so no solution.

Wronggggg! I swam in it this morning and it was a salt solution.

Head on the ground - feet in the clouds

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Sat, 26 Jan 2013 #160
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
have a feeling that we are talking about two different types of understanding

Dear T 

You know what T just now when I was going through the posts which we both have written in the thread '  K the essential texts '  ( experimenter's corner ) I feel I had  come  upon this one of the major precepts of K teaching .... Why do we divide at all ... Between more important / less important ... between what K meant / what he didn't mean ... Aren't we aware that the teaching is fundamentally about the totality of life , and the very basic core of human existence ? Isn't  that quality of our mind which differentiates / distinguishes , eliminates  . divides ... K speaks of as one needs to constantly  observe and keep a  check on ... ? 

And in fact in your thread 'Koming to a K halt 'too few entries are very good read of post 33 by John Anderson and Katy's 39 of K 's talk from Ojai in the year 1966 . ( thanks Katy ) and as you are reiterating T , I think in this thread we can discuss  which ever that makes sense to us or in other words we are helping each other in sharing few pointers which helped / help us in seeing the things as they are ... And furthering the inquiry . 

As K is imploring us to ask that  one ultimate question in that above mentioned talk  and find out answers for that question ....  let us start with this .... Why are we here in this forum ? Or we can pick up the question which K raised in that passage ... 

Let us remain with it  for the time being ...So long till the next post ...  . 

This post was last updated by pavani rao Sat, 26 Jan 2013.

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Mon, 28 Jan 2013 #161
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

john Campbell wrote:
Life is not a problem,it just is,so no solution.

From ‘zero’,you discover fresh, every minute.

Why are we here in this forum ? 

Hi T 

So let me start explaining or finding out why am I here ? Is it to hear my own voice ? Has it become my source of escape and addiction ?  As my own life I feel is not very exciting and I hadn't got  attention in my life from any body and by writing here that need is getting fulfilled ! 

May be if we have gone into all the above  aspects and examined ....   and if we feel by writing and reading here and by interacting  , if we are learning from each other .... 
 Which I feel is very much the case with me and   I think  it's  also very much necessary to keep a reality check on our selves ... Like having a perspective on ourselves of the time spent in this forum ... Have we learnt any thing ? In other words  the time we joined to the present moment is there any change .... Is there some thing new we have learnt about ourselves or about any thing .... ? Or is it a mere time wasting exercise / excuse .... ? 

Well since we Can't imagine / wish what is in future for us ... May be the best thing to do could be just observing our past actions and movements and try at best to get a real picture of what we are  and who we are and why do we act and behave the way we do ....

I wonder if it is making any sense ... ? But then I'm sharing how I go about things ... 

And as friend J. C mentioned in the above line starting everything from ground zero is the best way / only way to know about ourselves .... 

This post was last updated by pavani rao Mon, 28 Jan 2013.

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Tue, 29 Jan 2013 #162
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
Why are we here in this forum ?

Why are we here in this forum ?

J>>I’m wondering if this is just a family feud.
The obvious thing is that we all took the effort to acquire
some knowledge of ‘K’ thought.Also obvious is that there
are various degrees of acceptance,some demanding total
acceptance,many suggesting more debate in certain areas,
a very genuine suggestion it seems, and there are also a few that are just curious
about the teachings and wish to probe a little deeper.
So perhaps it has become like a kind of tug o’ war,
Which is a lot of fun at picnics ,especially when anger is absent.
Is total acceptance a necessary thing?

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Tue, 29 Jan 2013 #163
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
Why are we here in this forum ?

The fact is: WE ARE.

So deal with that and forget the constant analysis.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2013 #164
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Some equate the paralysis of analysis with stillness perhaps. :)

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Wed, 30 Jan 2013 #165
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
if we are learning from each other ....

the forum?
J.C.> Well Pav,This is a nice thread you have here,and as you suggested,an quite an intelligent suggestion to say the least: :” Just an informal chat ... No arguments , no aggression and not in a combatant mood altogether”. Very nice.
Hope no ‘big’,foul mouthed dictator types try to screw it up. I doubt it,you deserve a much higher level of responders. Thanks: )

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Wed, 30 Jan 2013 #166
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
The fact is: WE ARE.

Yes Patricia 

I think that's what we are trying to do ... Rather than spending all our energies in endless debates of what K talked / not talked .. Which particular aspect of the teaching made sense to us , or not made sense to us ... When that is the case why it is so ? 

As I mentioned earlier in few posts for me understanding myself in relation ship to people , things and objects in my day to day living is the only one  thing that made extra ordinary sense .... Of all so many extensive topics / areas covered by K in his  priceless work of his life time ... Well in that process its not only K but various other books / works by so many other philosophers , teachers , various life situations ... people from all walks of life ... every thing helped / helps ... 

If I may share few more things in here since the topic has come ... For me understanding K means  remaining in a state of listening . Learning and inquiring ... And I feel by interacting and spending time here I'm helping myself and if possible trying to help each other by sharing our experiences and our journeys ... 

You Patricia are into this teaching for quite some time ... May be you can come out with sharing your bit of wisdom if I can use that word ...  It's been since so long I had heard you using the word ' Human Disorder ' ... Would you like to go into explaining what does that word mean to you ? Why is it so ? 

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Wed, 30 Jan 2013 #167
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

john Campbell wrote:
Is total acceptance a necessary thing

Hi J

That's a very pragmatic post there you had written, the reasons being why we are here in these forums ...And regarding your query at the end , I think that's an entirely individual choice or shall I say some thing to do with pre disposition of one's mind perhaps ?

And J thanks for reminding the basic norms/ pre requisites with which we have started this thread . And don't you forget as the chair man of our company ' ginger tea & beer & co'you are always there to take care of other issues .. ?:)

Thanks .

This post was last updated by pavani rao Wed, 30 Jan 2013.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2013 #168
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
 It's been since so long I had heard you using the word ' Human Disorder ' ... Would you like to go into explaining what does that word mean to you ? Why is it so ?

Dear Pavani -

It is not a matter of what it means to 'me'.

The disorder is evident in everything that humanity touches. The self chooses to ignore this FACT - probably because to address it deeply, passionately and seriously is the end to the very existence of the self.

K was not playing comforting little games in what he pointed out. :)

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Wed, 30 Jan 2013 #169
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
K was not playing comforting little games in what he pointed out. :)

Dear Patricia

Well you know what when we have to stay with some serious issues as serious as our own lives and selves ( not tying to do but actually and passionately doing ) ... Incidentally our minds do not have that capacity to stay so serious all the time ... That's why these small unoffensive comic acts and  light hearted humor which in turn help I guess in swallowing the serious pills  ?! :) let me remind you K too had this sense of humor and enjoyed good music completely .. No comparisons are being drawn of course .

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
The disorder is evident in everything that humanity touches. The self chooses to ignore this FACT -

Now coming to your definitions  of Humanity and Self .... I'm afraid I have completely  different experiences to share  and write about ... 

Do tell me can you say any human being is completely good or bad ? Didn't they say that human being is the most intelligent and rational being of this creation ? .... 

And the world in which you and me are living isn't it due to the extraordinary efforts or intelligence of  rare  human excellence and endeavor ? Well at the same time there is every cause for deep concern.... The same humanity is also responsible for all the wars , chaos , and extreme callousness and destruction caused to life and to this world ... 

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
is the end to the very existence of the self.

K's work '   You Are The World  'points us    out to see the disorder in ourselves .... Ending of the disorder which includes not being adamant , unreasonable , and above all not getting stuck and living in long drawn conclusions ....

' Ending of the self ' .. when we don't even acknowledge the very basic intelligence of human being and  hunan life  how can there be the ' Awakening Of Intelligence ' which comes into existence  in the ' discerning process of I ' which is a constant ,  continuous and a challenging effort of questioning and inquiring our actions , concepts our mind has gathered .... 

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Wed, 30 Jan 2013 #170
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
Do tell me can you say any human being is completely good or bad ? Didn't they say that human being is the most intelligent and rational being of this creation ? ....

And who was it said that? Humans ourselves perhaps? :)

And it is not a matter of picking 'any human being' and labeling 'good or bad'.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2013 #171
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
the extraordinary

various life situations ... people

J.C.> You know Pav, with just a little reflection one must conclude that just one person may contain such
awesome essence of pure humanity,and if one is lucky enough to be in that persons presence,even if
one is from a dysfunctional part of society or not,that life will be changed in a ‘New York’ minute.
These special people never dictate they just radiate ,there is order in everything that they touch,
Spirituality obviously is in constant flow from their being,there is no facade,like pure gold it seems,
but then again,a purity beyond words.A simple ‘How are you”,is meant ,and felt, by every bodily cell.
It is ‘transformation’ in progress,the chemistry of the soul,and it is everlasting and forever gentle.
Many of these people exist ,continuously aiding humanity,and without fanfare.Most of us meet one.
Unfortunately,it seems,some do not.But this will change and so will the world.
Thanks for the thread Pavi.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2013 #172
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 388 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

john Campbell wrote:
These special people never dictate they just radiate ,there is order in everything that they touch,

the whole of # 173 is awesome!
thank you John

you are absolutely right. yes, these people exist and yes they will change one in a minute and if they do not turn one's life completely upside down at least they make one feel how messed up one really is-

john Campbell wrote:
Many of these people exist ,continuously aiding humanity,and without fanfare

yes, and one should always beware of those who aid with the fanfare

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Wed, 30 Jan 2013 #173
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

John and BT -

Are you both waiting for someone else to 'change the world' for you? One of the 'special people' who 'exist'? :)

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Thu, 31 Jan 2013 #174
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
one should always beware of

BT yes, these people exist....

J.C.> Thanks BT,they do, and maybe its an innate quality,
but whatever ,surly extraordinary.An accolade,a praise
or two,seems in order,even if only to acknowledge
the existence of such essence.
Unfortunately,some become quite upset at even the
mention of the existence human goodness.Whatever
their reason, be it reckless anger,or God forbid, a
pathological denial of natural love,it is pitiful.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2013 #175
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Well I think when we acknowledge that every and any man / woman  potentially is neither good or bad ... In other words all of us are amalgamation of all these mixed qualities .... At the same time each quality may be given to us to serve a specific purpose or a job in the bigger very big picture of the functioning and  the continuation of the things in this universe .... 
Just a guess ... 

You know what J don't you 
think after all these serious and weighty thoughts and write ups  we both need a good break ? a coffee break perhaps :) ... By the way you are supposed to  enhance  this thread  by sharing   some interesting experiences / anecdotes which made sense to you and have some  amusement value too :) 

Pat ( I hope I can call you like this ) 

Same goes  for you also .. I remember sharing a good joke with you and B T in some of the threads long time ago .. Do share with us your interesting experiences  or any life situations which  served  or added value to yourself and your way of living ... 

This post was last updated by pavani rao Thu, 31 Jan 2013.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2013 #176
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 388 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

pavani rao wrote:
Well I think when we acknowledge that every and any man / woman potentially is neither good or bad

hi Pavani, it is the 'potentially' here that i do not fully understand.

in my life i have seen people whose entire universe revolved around they belly button and others (very few) who absolutely seem to forget themselves in giving the best of themselves to others.

in a system of living and non-living beings in which the overall balance of things and energy is always 0 (we are told.... ), there are those who give almost all and those who are pretty comfortable taking 99 and giving back 1. that's nature i guess...

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Thu, 31 Jan 2013 #177
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 388 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Are you both waiting for someone else to 'change the world' for you? One of the 'special people' who 'exist'? :)

interesting point of view Patricia. I see your concern.

i recognize that in my life i have come across a couple of people like this who have made me take a hard long look at myself because of the way they were. i cannot shrug this fact aside.

i seem to understand that your concern is that we may sort of 'look up' to other people, is that so? but i think all matter acts upon all other matter. we are matter, what people do around us affects us. i cannot see how denying this can be helpful.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2013 #178
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
i seem to understand that your concern is that we may sort of 'look up' to other people, is that so?

Hero worship as an excuse for taking no responsibility - yes. The "good guys" will solve the problems!

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Thu, 31 Jan 2013 #179
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 388 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Hero worship as an excuse for taking no responsibility - yes. The "good guys" will solve the problems!

what can i say? i have a feeling that you are jumping to lots of conclusions here.

This post was last updated by B Teulada (account deleted) Thu, 31 Jan 2013.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2013 #180
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

And here I was thinking we were on the same page here. :)

Do you not observe the manner in which most human beings rely upon others (who they often hero worship) to make all the hard decisions to solve the problems, and to lead the way to enlightenment so that they can just follow happily and hopefully along?

And isn't that what K was up against constantly? Even now? And then when that does not work for them - predictably because how can it! - they blame K for letting them down.

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