Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
General Discussion | moderated by Dev Singh

Life: an exploration without intent


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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #1
Thumb_005 Nicholas Okumu Canada 70 posts in this forum Offline

What's life? Others think life is the opposite of death. Some think life means being able to breath and live.

However' life in reality means exploration without intent. What do you thing?

...the problems of duality...

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #2
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

I'll take a shot at this, Nicholas. Life is awareness and love.

max

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #3
Thumb_005 Nicholas Okumu Canada 70 posts in this forum Offline

Max,
Good that you have contributed to this new thread. JK related "awareness" to intelligence. Does this imply life is intelligence in JK's sense?. Intelligence which JK said is total awareness.

Based on the above then most of us are not really living. We are not dead either. Then what are we doing?. Mind you life, which is also love is not experience. That is to say go through a sense of time, in the usual way.

...the problems of duality...

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #4
Thumb_3252 Voco . Luxembourg 878 posts in this forum Offline

Life is not what you think it is. Period.

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #5
Thumb_farside0411 m christani United States 262 posts in this forum Offline

I think, as an example, the Buddha said life is suffering. Life is 'what is', without an ideal.

mike

This post was last updated by m christani Sun, 21 Feb 2016.

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #6
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Nicholas Okumu wrote:
However' life in reality means exploration without intent.

Does life 'mean' anything ? 'Meaning' comes from logic and thought ... life is well beyond those limitations ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #7
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

Nicholas Okumu wrote:
most of us are not really living. We are not dead either. Then what are we doing?

As I see it, we -- physical beings -- with our ability to think have created the psychological. Thinking and thought are the psychological. And the self is thought. This is the duality -- the physical and the psychological -- that is so much discussed.

We believe this imaginary psychological world of self and thought that each of us creates is actually real. We give it priority over our own physical existence -- witness our willingness to kill and die in wars. All wars are fought for psychological purposes.

So we, as physical beings, of course are not dead. But in allowing a fabricated psychological to have priority over our own physical bodies and our physical world, zombies ("selves") of our own creation are in control of the world.

max

This post was last updated by max greene Sun, 21 Feb 2016.

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #8
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

Nicholas Okumu wrote:
. . . life, which is also love is not experience. That is to say go through a sense of time, in the usual way.

Yes, "life" is a word which expresses the unity of love, awareness, understanding and action in the present moment -- the timeless moment of creation.

max

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #9
Thumb_005 Nicholas Okumu Canada 70 posts in this forum Offline

So what is it? By stopping, you may be missing something. JK always talked about meditation, the core in religion. Without meditation, exploration, pondering, going deeper, etc; how would you understand life?

Don't stop there! Move on!

...the problems of duality...

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #10
Thumb_005 Nicholas Okumu Canada 70 posts in this forum Offline

True. But what is "...beyond those limitations"?

...the problems of duality...

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #11
Thumb_005 Nicholas Okumu Canada 70 posts in this forum Offline

Just as human beings should be nothing. No association with anything. Not becoming. Whether becoming rich or poor; becoming Prime Minister or cabinet minister; lawyer or doctor. Nothing at all!!

...the problems of duality...

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #12
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

Nicholas Okumu wrote:
Don't stop there! Move on!

Exactly. Once we stop, we are caught. We have "Become," and we are frozen in place.

The present moment is forever new and creative. It is the only possible moment of love and awareness, understanding and action.

max

This post was last updated by max greene Sun, 21 Feb 2016.

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #13
Thumb_3252 Voco . Luxembourg 878 posts in this forum Offline

Nicholas Okumu wrote:
how would you understand life?

Why would you want to understand life? What is there to understand? Why not understand ourselves, our limitations rather?

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Sun, 21 Feb 2016 #14
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Nicholas Okumu wrote:
But what is "...beyond those limitations"?

Life knows no limitations ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #15
Thumb_3252 Voco . Luxembourg 878 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Life knows no limitations ...

How do you know?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #16
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Voco . wrote:

Jean Gatti wrote:

Life knows no limitations ...

How do you know?

Life told me :-)

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #17
Thumb_3252 Voco . Luxembourg 878 posts in this forum Offline

max greene wrote:
The present moment is forever new and creative.

If it is forever new, how comes it is new? To say that there is new, one must first remember the old. So, is there anything old or new at all?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #18
Thumb_3252 Voco . Luxembourg 878 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Life told me :-)

Through what means?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #19
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Voco . wrote:

Jean Gatti wrote:

Life told me :-)

Through what means?

Through silence ... and suffering ...

I would nearly say that suffering is the language of life ... this is how life 'teaches' ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Mon, 22 Feb 2016.

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #20
Thumb_3252 Voco . Luxembourg 878 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Through silence ... and suffering ...

I would nearly say that suffering is the language of life ... this is how life 'teaches' ...

Did you heard about silence and suffering somewhere? Why do you give suffering and silence a name? You also have said that life knows no limitations, what limitations?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #21
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Voco . wrote:
You also have said that life knows no limitations, what limitations?

Death ... thought ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #22
Thumb_3252 Voco . Luxembourg 878 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Death ... thought ...

Life has no limitations which we have created, right? But, we cannot claim that life has no limitations in other dimensions, death is not only our concept, it is also a fact.

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #23
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Voco . wrote:
death is not only our concept, it is also a fact.

Are you dead ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #24
Thumb_3252 Voco . Luxembourg 878 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Are you dead ?

Have you ever seen a dead body or a dead animal? Today I've picked up a dead dove, I couldn't say that he is alive, that he can fly.

This post was last updated by Voco . Mon, 22 Feb 2016.

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #25
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Voco . wrote:

Jean Gatti wrote:

Are you dead ?

Have you ever seen a dead body or a dead animal?

Forms die, matter trans-forms ... what about YOU ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #26
Thumb_3252 Voco . Luxembourg 878 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Forms die, matter trans-forms ... what about YOU ?

What about me? I am form and matter, aren't you?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #27
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Voco . wrote:
I am form and matter, aren't you?

Do you mean you have identified yourself with your body ?

Do you know this syllogism Voco:

All men are mortal

Socrates is a man

Therefore Socrates is mortal

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #28
Thumb_3252 Voco . Luxembourg 878 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Do you mean you have identified yourself with your body ?

No, I'm just telling that this body is form and matter also and that it will die.

Jean Gatti wrote:
Do you know this syllogism Voco:

All men are mortal

Socrates is a man

Therefore Socrates is mortal

I don't, but that's what I'm also saying.

This post was last updated by Voco . Mon, 22 Feb 2016.

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #29
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Voco . wrote:
No, I'm just telling that this body is form and matter also and that it will die.

Oh yes this body will dissolve and matter will be 'recycled', like all forms, there is no permanence in forms and matter ... and life goes on ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 22 Feb 2016 #30
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Do you mean you have identified yourself with your body?

As I see it, Jean (and Voco), yes we are, indeed, our bodies. We are form, the result of evolution --i.e., the unfolding of the present. As Krishnamurti pointed out, the physical is all that we are. All living beings are physical form, together with formless love and awareness, in the present moment.

max

This post was last updated by max greene Mon, 22 Feb 2016.

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