Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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What is silence? Is it static or it changes it's qualities all the time?


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Mon, 12 Mar 2018 #1
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

Is silence the absence of noise or much more?

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Mon, 12 Mar 2018 #2
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

silent (?sa?l?nt)
adj
1. characterized by an absence or near absence of noise or sound: a silent house.
2. tending to speak very little or not at all
3. unable to speak
4. failing to speak, communicate, etc, when expected: the witness chose to remain silent.
5. not spoken or expressed: silent assent.
6. not active or in operation: a silent volcano.
7. (Phonetics & Phonology) (of a letter) used in the conventional orthography of a word but no longer pronounced in that word: the 'k' in 'know' is silent.
8. (Film) denoting a film that has no accompanying soundtrack, esp one made before 1927, when such soundtracks were developed
n
(Film) a silent film
[C16: from Latin sil?ns, from sil?re to be quiet]
?silently adv
?silentness n

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Tue, 13 Mar 2018 #3
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

[C16: from Latin sil?ns, from sil?re to be quiet]

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Sat, 17 Mar 2018 #4
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1064 posts in this forum Offline

Absence of noise? Then thought can be active. Is there silence then?

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Sat, 17 Mar 2018 #5
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Goodman B wrote:
1. characterized by an absence or near absence of noise or sound: a silent house.

So what is the real answer, you wish to have questioned? K frequently used words out of context to their dictionary definition.

I wonder if questions and answers/knowledge can accurately reproduce/define something outside of it's capacity to do so.

Words/knowledge/logic/information has utility for the human biological entity. I just question (without seeking an answer), if asking about something we're calling "Silence", is appropriate for that mechanism.

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Sun, 18 Mar 2018 #6
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1064 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
I wonder if questions and answers/knowledge can accurately reproduce/define something outside of it's capacity to do so.

Yes.May be we have to approach this by negation?

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Tue, 20 Mar 2018 #7
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
May be we have to approach this by negation?

Well, I was just pointing out that when we try to discuss words that K used, "Silence" for instance, we are attempting to "measure the immeasurable" as K would put it. Futile exercise, really.

But I am curious what you mean by "negation"? Maybe you mean to discuss what these words (silence/intelligence/death, etc..) obviously are not? In other words, what we are/have/do?

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Wed, 21 Mar 2018 #8
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1064 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
K frequently used words out of context to their dictionary definition.

Yes, very much so.

richard head wrote:
I wonder if questions and answers/knowledge can accurately reproduce/define something outside of it's capacity to do so.

Apparently it cannot. Many apparent contradictory words may be needed to point to it.

richard head wrote:
But I am curious what you mean by "negation"? Maybe you mean to discuss what these words (silence/intelligence/death, etc..) obviously are not? In other words, what we are/have/do?

No, not negation really. You are right. I was really saying we have to keep tackling what we have. Then we will come upon silence if there is any such thing.

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Wed, 21 Mar 2018 #9
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

I wonder if questions and answers/knowledge can accurately reproduce/define something outside of it's capacity to do so.

Words/knowledge/logic/information has utility for the human biological entity. I just question (without seeking an answer), if asking about something we're calling "Silence", is appropriate for that mechanism

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Wed, 21 Mar 2018 #10
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

When one is not interested in finding out the truth there is always an excuse. This is what I have learned in discussing k things in public discussions .People are burned out and don't have the confidence to discover truth or silence for themselves.

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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 #11
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1064 posts in this forum Offline

Wait, can silence be directly described? Directly? That is when we say 'chair', there is a corresponding object to that word.

Now when K said silence, is this something in the dictionary? Obviously not. He was talking about something he discovered. Dictionary covers for silence what we generally know as silence such as absence of sound etc. That is the known stuff.

Now here we are tackling something as 'silence' that is not in the dictionary as it's meaning. So this will need elaborate description.Different approach. Not direct defining.

Furthermore we are here talking about something unknown to man. So unless we have come upon this we would be talking wholly hypothetically. However we can still raise the question asking what did K mean by silence etc. Then do we not have to begin with us to tackle this question?

However it appears to me the question can be posed by someone who has come to silence. Then I think the person has to point out by negation as direct description of something without form,something hitherto unknown & without an established word, is not possible.

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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 #12
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
is not possible.

Let us suppose that a regular average human mind has come upon this thing K called "silence"? What then is the "Responsibility" of this mind?

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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 #13
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
So unless we have come upon this we would be talking wholly hypothetically.

I am not certain that hypothetical speculation is a serious pursuit.

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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 #14
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Goodman B wrote:
People are burned out and don't have the confidence to discover truth or silence for themselves.

This seems to be a fair assessment, but maybe there is more to it than that?

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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 #15
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
However it appears to me the question can be posed by someone who has come to silence.

The problem is that the question is usually posed by someone obviously not in direct contact.

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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 #16
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

Do we need to read what k said about silence or silence is all around us. Nothing can exist without space or silence . We know that k said listening to the silences between two noise and to the silence that is behind all noise is intelligence. I think that is fairly simple to do if one has the interest to find out.. Just listen...

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Fri, 23 Mar 2018 #17
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1064 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Let us suppose that a regular average human mind has come upon this thing K called "silence"? What then is the "Responsibility" of this mind?

Haha....I have to assume to answer this!

Well from glimpses, do other minds also have a responsibility? Or man's responsibility is really meaningless?

Responsibility would be....of course pointing out I would say.

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Fri, 23 Mar 2018 #18
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1064 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
I am not certain that hypothetical speculation is a serious pursuit.

Nor do I think so.

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Fri, 23 Mar 2018 #19
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1064 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
The problem is that the question is usually posed by someone obviously not in direct contact.

Haha...you are quite right!

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Sat, 24 Mar 2018 #20
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Responsibility would be....of course pointing out I would say.

Pointing to the absurdities that thought engages in it's escapes from the fact, certainly.

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Sat, 24 Mar 2018 #21
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
from glimpses, do other minds also have a responsibility

What you call "glimpses" could be self deception, no? There is either change.....or no change, right?

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Sat, 24 Mar 2018 #22
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
....I have to assume to answer this!

No reference to you but this is the activity that dominates Kinfonet, and other places as well.

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Sun, 25 Mar 2018 #23
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

When we say " Let us suppose that a regular average human mind has come upon this thing K called "silence"?"
Are we not approaching an idea of silence which has nothing to do with actual silence?

This post was last updated by Goodman B Sun, 25 Mar 2018.

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Mon, 26 Mar 2018 #24
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1064 posts in this forum Offline

It's pity you deleted your account Richard.Because some interesting things come up with your answer.

richard head wrote:
What you call "glimpses" could be self deception, no?

This could be...

richard head wrote:
There is either change.....or no change, right?

Yes, there is no gradual change. If there is it is not change because the old is there in that.

However the point is this. Please forgive me, I am not insulting you,but is this not what the book says?

That is what I wanted to raise. Do we not counter with what is written?

But what happens actually? Can the brain operate differently briefly & then switch back to the old mode? Certainly not that the two are mixed.Then it is the same mode, not anything different. K once said of himself(he was quite old, mind you!), 'The self was trying to come up. He(K) saw it & ended it immediately.'(I hope I am correct about that remark)

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Mon, 26 Mar 2018 #25
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

Thought being anxious always moves faster than what is, that is the what should be or what ought to be and so on gets ahead of what is and distortions takes place. If thought knew it's right place and didn't interfere with what is then all the problems of the world would be solved ,wouldn't it?
So our problem is to put thought in it's right place. What is the right place for thought ? Even in technical things thought has to be quiet when investigating things. So the art of thinking is what we need to learn and that is thought to be quiet when is not needed. Correct? Thought is the problem, can thought be quiet? Can thought be silent when is not needed? That is our main problem in the world .

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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 #26
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

There we go around the circle again. Why are we concern with "other factor" and so on? Is that not a way to avoid understanding what has been said which is a fact? Our problem is that we think in term of the controller and the controlled ,observer and the observed ,the doer and the doing. That is our conditioning,division. When one understands something one just understands and it ends there. one doesn't ask who is it that understand and who is doing what and so on. Which is merely an intellectual avoidance of facts..
I am not trying to convince anybody about anything, I am just watching things that distracts one from seeing what is . Thought avoids facing the facts in so many subtle ways..

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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 #27
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:

Thought avoids facing the facts in so many subtle ways..

But primarily misses or is ignorant to the 'fact' that the 'thinker' is the 'thought'. Why is that?

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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 #28
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

I said that we are conditioned to think that there is a thinker separate from his thought through our education and religious conditioning. The carrot and stick thing.

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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 #29
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1064 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
So the art of thinking is what we need to learn and that is thought to be quiet when is not needed. Correct? Thought is the problem, can thought be quiet? Can thought be silent when is not needed? That is our main problem in the world .

Correct.But when is thought not needed? In the psychological arena? When it builds images,right? If yes, why does then thought build images?

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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 #30
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 64 posts in this forum Offline

I don't know what happened to my answer. It is not there. But we are not concern with the thinker or the observer because it is an image and is none-existing. We can only discuss facts not ideas.

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