Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Every thing that is mater is superficial


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Wed, 12 Jun 2019 #1
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 633 posts in this forum Offline

If I may suggest for consideration....

Everything that is mater is superficial....

Everything

This post was last updated by Peter Kesting Wed, 12 Jun 2019.

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Wed, 12 Jun 2019 #2
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 633 posts in this forum Offline

None the less it is there.

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Thu, 13 Jun 2019 #3
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5016 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Kesting wrote:
Everything that is matter is superficial....

Hi Peter,

If we are to inquire into this, then I think we have to inquire first into the meaning of "superficial".

The root meaning of the word, I think, is "on the surface". And that implies, doesn't it, "that which can first be seen", or "that which reveals itself to a superficial glance". The implication of the use of the word superficial is that something exists BENEATH the surface.

We know, scientifically, that matter consists of energy, or is interchangeable with energy. Are you suggesting that there is another factor lying beneath the surface of matter? If so, what would you say it is? Is it nameable?

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Thu, 13 Jun 2019 #4
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 633 posts in this forum Offline

Unnamable and unthinkable.

Can we see that there is that?

This one here is presently suggesting that the deeper is seen to be there, is only seen to be there, is seen most clearly, when there is a seeing of the whole... everything... everything that is actually mater... as actually being, only mater, as being superficial.

Everything that is mater is limited, measurable.. all physical things, the body the brain, thought is mater, the whole of the universe...material. All superficial.

This person, superficial.

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Fri, 14 Jun 2019 #5
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5016 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Kesting wrote:
This person, superficial.

If I am entirely superficial, how would it be possible to see beyond the superficial? Can the surface see into the depths? Can the conditioned see beyond its conditioning ( I would hesitantly say that all matter is conditioned)

So what does it mean, Peter, "to see the whole", as you say?

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Sat, 15 Jun 2019 #6
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 633 posts in this forum Offline

Perhaps something is seen when the surface stops moving.

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Sat, 15 Jun 2019 #7
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5016 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Kesting wrote:
Perhaps something is seen when the surface stops moving.

As far as understanding the mind goes - and that may be the only understanding that is necessary or meaningful - K has suggested, as you probably know, that the mind must 'slow down', not stop. He draws the analogy of understanding a machine, and says one cannot understand the machine if it has stopped. Cannot see how the parts interact (my words). And as you are suggesting, if the machine is going at high speed, one just cannot see the parts at all.

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Sun, 16 Jun 2019 #8
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2574 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
Peter Kesting wrote:

Perhaps something is seen when the surface stops moving.
As far as understanding the mind goes - and that may be the only understanding that is necessary or meaningful -

There is disorder in consciousness and the world. This is a fact. K often said it’s important to deal with facts. Can this disorder be seen...observed....understood? If not, what prevents this seeing...understanding? There is only the fact, after all. And for man, disorder is a fact, yes? To say that I am something else is a denial of the fact....a denial of ‘what is’. It seems to me that the first step is to accept the fact without judgment ... without wishing it were different or feeling things SHOULD be different. It’s the wishing for something else....something better...that leads to suffering

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sun, 16 Jun 2019.

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1 day ago #9
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5016 posts in this forum Offline

Peter, I came across a use of the word "superficial" by K recently. He said:

" And it seems to me, if we are at all serious, and not only [as]the times demand, that one be very, very earnest but also as one leads rather a superficial life - superficial in the sense, give full vent, full expression to the whole field of thought in every day, which I call superficial ...... "

I find this very meaningful. I have been observing lately how as soon as thought creates an image, has a desire, the mind immediately act to try and make the image real, to satisfy the desire (gives full vent). At times there is no space at all between image and action from the image. So then one is a complete slave to thought.

This is superficial indeed.

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